Jep, we know about her laziness and to have others do her housekeeping. We did the tedious work methods of hers when others were not in the house.
Thank you for your words.
Sue was pure evil scum from the depths of hell! Jim was a little puppet to her and they were gross.

How it all started. The post that triggered this very long (17+ years) discussion:

The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Altar_Kent
Date: February 23, 2004 03:18PM

Is anyone familiar with this movement? It is based in Kalona Iowa at a camp/compound called Shiloh. IT is primarily located in the United states, but also has churches in Brazil and japan. It was founded by John Robert Stevens and first called the walk. Stevens came out of the Latter Rain movement, built quite a congregation, and then died in 1983. The Living word Fellowship is currently being run by Gary and Marilyn Hargrave.

IF you are familiar with it, there is an ongoing discussion about it at

[www.factnet.org]

I was a former member, born into the cult, and I still have family members in it. I would like to get a discussion going concerning this movement and its destructive teachings and abusive practices. If anyone is familiar with it, please post.

Thank you

Oct 31-Nov 1 of 2020:

Posted by: Wasted
Date: October 31, 2020 06:28AM

I have spent a lot of time reading many people’s stories and experiences within the cult that was/is The Living Word Fellowship. It is horrible, disgusting, and I am so sorry for all of those it has impacted. Thank you to so many who have shared. I sincerely hope as you move forward from these experiences you are able to find peace, healing, and justice.

I know many people that have also shared personal stories with me that have not spoken publicly about things (myself included) that makes it evident there are endless layers to the destruction this organization has caused. Some encounters so terrible that individuals have blocked it out of their minds to never have to relive it again. I have seen a therapist on a regular basis for 2-3 years now to help uncover things I have forgotten, talk about the things I was told never to speak of, and unravel my mind and emotions to simply try to feel normal.

I wanted to share some of my story in hopes that it will help in the healing process. Many have been able to continue with life as normal, but I find myself struggling on a daily basis to keep going – and many days feel like I won’t make it.

I was born into the fellowship and a part of it my entire life until about 3 years ago. I left “officially” about 6 months before Shalom’s letter was released. I grew up in a church that was considered a “local church” not a “kingdom facility.” The church I was in connected with Shiloh as the kingdom facility in charge, though throughout the 80’s , 90’s, and 00’s , directives from Shiloh were still often coming from or influenced by the Los Angeles facility.

My experience as a kid (0-18) was really nothing negative towards me. However, I learned things that happened to my parents once the Shalom letter came out that I never knew. For example: my mom was told not to further her career and education, but to focus on giving her paycheck to the church (her full paycheck) to support the kingdom. My dad was called a Nephilim and the church directed people to pray for his death and business failure. My mom was sexually assaulted and raped. They both volunteered at the church 20-40 hours a week. I never knew any of that was happening as a kid, except volunteer time because I was there for part of it. Even with all of that I was told to give my life to the church, and was called rebellious whenever I asked a question or acted like a normal kid/teenager.

When I was 18, John and Chris Sayer entered my life, and to put it simply, ruined my life. But…I didn’t know that yet. J&C were “commissioned” over the young people at that time, and had just moved to Palmer Lake, CO. Our local church was closed down by Gary and Marilyn after they visited (the one and only time they ever visited), and all of the money that the local church had (which was quite a bit) and that the local church was never allowed to spend, was given to the General Fund in a church transfer. My parents moved to Colorado as they were directed to, and in a visit to CO with my family, that’s where John and Chris inserted themselves and changed people’s lives for no agenda but their own…and Gary and Marilyn’s…of course.

As this is already long, I’ll pause for now, and return later. Still to come on J&C…forced relationships, submission, more nephilims, abuse of all kinds (sexual, mental, physical, substance, financial, etc), abortion, neglect, public displays of discipline and power, and more!

Posted by: KSargent
Date: October 31, 2020 10:27AM

Hi I have been reading these posts for a couple of years now. I have cried and laughed at many of them.I am originially from Ohio. First Columbiana, then Reynoldsburg, under Jim Holbrook. That is where I met JRS, Conquest,Greir, and the list goes on.After several years in Reynoldsburg I was sent to Shiloh. After a few months there I went to DC under Dan Statton, that is where my "Walk" days ended.So that gives you an idea that I have seen or heard alot of stories that have been shared here. My heart breaks for those of you who were abused one way or another.I hope and pray that the ones who "lurk" here find a way out and maybe one day share their story. I believe there are many still out there.I will write more soon.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 31, 2020 11:29AM

Thank you for sharing, Wasted and KSargent. Feel free to continue posting whatever is on your mind. It's obvious that you both have deeply experienced the affliction put upon the fellowship by self-serving leaders without conscience or ethics. All the best in your own path toward healing, and thanks for the encouraging words.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: October 31, 2020 11:30AM

Dear Wasted and KSargent,

Thank you so much for sharing a little bit of your stories. I hope that you will both keep on sharing. Together we are strong. <3

Posted by: changedagain
Date: November 01, 2020 02:25AM

Wasted wrote:
Many have been able to continue with life as normal, but I find myself struggling on a daily basis to keep going – and many days feel like I won’t make it.

Any way you can shed self-guilt or regrets that place an unnecessary burden upon your life, given what you been through, will pay substantial dividends. I know that the key leaders of TLWF mastered the practice of transferring the guilt of their own abusive practices upon innocent members of the fellowship, so be careful not to berate yourself for seemingly falling short in being 'normal'...or anything else connected to the conditioning of being in this cult. Strange, but not surprising, is that when Rick's predatory practices became public the emphasis from former key leaders quickly became the need for victims to be forgiving, rather than the perpetrators and enablers owning up to their abusive actions and/or negligence. And Marilyn (Mom) did this spectacularly post-John, blaming his death on the lack of dedication and love for him within the fellowship. She conveniently forgot to mention her infatuation with her boyfriend, during the time period her husband dying. Admitting that to the fellowship may have put things in a different light and lightened the psychological load on the rank and file. But then it wouldn't be in keeping with the "upward flow." Can't have that.

Posted by: puddington
Date: November 01, 2020 07:34AM

During the last few years that JRS was alive, I was told in a backroom meeting that my lack of dedication was “killing John”. I carried that guilt for years. But now I see that it was a ridiculous accusation. Maybe his wife having an affair with Gary while he lay sick in bed was what was more deadly.

Posted by: kBOY
Date: November 01, 2020 04:56PM

C H A N G E D


Great response to WASTED.

Learning how to let things go, especially anything placed upon us by others, is one of life's most important lessons. P U D D was gracious enough to supply us with the most insidious one employed within TLW--being personally responsible for the death of JRS.

Anyone still carrying around even a residue of that guilt should cast it onto the ash heap of what was formerly know as the Center of the Universe.

Dear Wasted and KSargent,

If you're reading this, I hope that you both come back and tell us more of your stories. <3

A post by 'reveal' from September of 2018:

Posted by: reveal
Date: September 06, 2018 06:37AM

I love what everyone has been posting lately. I feel like so many of us have been holding our tongues for a very long time and we have somehow collectively realized that the time has come to SPEAK UP! Someone mentioned recently the concept of "doing your own thing" and do I ever relate to that. I was certainly labeled as such on many occasions. Oddly, when I look back at the times when I wasn't super involved in the church and wasn't submitting to any shepherds (tsk tsk) those were the times when I was actually functioning the best in my life. Sure I had ups and downs and heartaches, regular life stuff...but it wasn't this intense psychological war zone like it was for me when I became involved and submitted to TLWF leadership. To be honest, the only reason I did give myself to submit in the first place was because I was made to feel so "less than", so unloved, so marginalized by the people that were supposed to be my family because I wasn't. I came to the conclusion that well, this is what I had to do to be accepted so I had better get on board. And thus began the worst years of my life. No joke.

I spoke recently with an old friend of mine who was never in the church, and when I was finally honest with her about how I had been raised in this bizarre cult, she felt free to be honest with me. She said that once when she and her boyfriend came to a church sponsored function on my invitation, on their way home she said to him, "I think she is in a cult!" We had a good LOL over that, but it also saddened me. She could see it so clearly, but I was completely blind. How could I not be? We were completely immersed, discouraged from relating to the outside world in any real way, made to fear it even. The truth is that the friends I have made outside the church over the years have oftentimes proven to be far deeper and more genuine than those I had in the church. It made me realize how shallow so many of my church relationships really were. We were fed lines about being family, and told that the relationships are born out of the work, and so we labored together and built Rick three bars to get drunk at church, and five-star facilities for the pleasure of a relatively small group of elite, and made Gary & Marilyn's meals, cleaned their house (while they had two assistants on staff) and any other number of endless projects that were put before us. Not one of which involved helping ANYONE in the community, no encouragement to get out there and help the underprivileged or be socially conscious. I realized one day that, for the most part, all of these people I had worshipped with and labored with for so many years didn't even really know me, nor I them. We weren't given the time! We were too busy laboring for Jesus! This became all the more evident when we left the church, because NO ONE has even asked us why they haven't seen or heard from us. Family my ass.

On another current topic of conversation, I am sickened hearing about this plan to implement a team of overseeing ministries that will allegedly have "one equal voice" but still includes mean-spirited, power-drunk individuals and is still meant to be at the top of the divine order chain. It is still being preached that submission and divine order are necessary, but oh, "there is no hierarchy". I call bullshit. I am so sick of having divine order shoved down my throat. And why does it always have to mean some pyramidal idea of order? They could easily restructure it to be circular, level, equal. More of an organized way of doing things rather than a chain of command that does not allow the "little people" to have a voice. And for God's sake, let people make their own fucking life decisions! Teach people to navigate their own way in life and cultivate intuition and good decision-making skills. Stop dictating to them and telling them that YOU know God's will for their lives. Why does this demand for total involvement and total renunciation of your will to another HUMAN BEING continue to be a theme?

Also, even if Rick & Lorena Holbrook are permanently ousted, every single one of the people mentioned for that leadership team (Phyllis & Craig, Silas & Shuma, Steve & Becky, etc.) are guilty of treating sheep at a minimum unjustly, but mostly cruelly. The hierarchy will continue, because that is the culture that Gary & Marilyn created when they continued to allow themselves to be put on a pedestal, worshipped essentially as gods, and waited on hand and foot. Their leaders are only emulating them! This culture will not change. Get out while you can still salvage a good portion of your life. I agree with everyone else that has said life on the outside is BRILLIANT! The trials and tribulations that the Walk labels "battle" are really just the fruit of what they are sowing. You sow shit, you eat shit. Plain and simple. Over here on the other side, there is freedom and peace, genuine relationships and LOVE that does not require you to be anything but YOU. And also does not require you to clean their toilet. (snark)

How would you describe your pastor's sermons?

Like a freight train

So they're anointed?

No. A good service in when he doesn't derail. That doesn't happen often, unfortunately.


reveal wrote:
'On another current topic of conversation, I am sickened hearing about this plan to implement a team of overseeing ministries that will allegedly have "one equal voice" but still includes mean-spirited, power-drunk individuals and is still meant to be at the top of the divine order chain. It is still being preached that submission and divine order are necessary, but oh, "there is no hierarchy". I call bullshit. I am so sick of having divine order shoved down my throat.'

Reep wrote:
Dear Wasted and KSargent,
If you're reading this, I hope that you both come back and tell us more of your stories. <3

Yes

Posted by: Imapurple ()
Date: November 28, 2019 10:38AM

Interesting. JRS held onto all the coins from all the offerings for many years so I wouldn’t be surprised if a Sh*t load ended up in Shiloh. I know they must have come and cleaned out many of the valuable items like Van Dyke paintings, guns and so forth way before all This started....


Posted by: Onion ()
Date: November 28, 2019 12:01PM

Northerngate and Chachakitty - They held us against our will through mind control that eliminated our ability to determine our own will or desires. It was a prison of the multi-realm type, holding us by psychic, spiritual, emotional, and psychological means.

They also used different playbooks for different people. If your landlord was someone who had wealth, then he or she was managed by them with an exclusive playbook where the head guys would never truly antagonize the wealthy victim but would keep them on their toes, making sure they were always hungering for more approval from G&M. Sometimes the wealthy would get to travel (to Africa, Brazil, Hawaii, Israel) in the privileged company of G&M directly. Wow. I've heard G&M laugh about one of those unfortunate but wealthy victims because the victims were overwhelmed by the level of warfare there was around G&M. That was their story. It's hard to imagine what might really underly the evil chuckles.

And yes, it is true Chachakitty - JRS had all the pennies, nickels, and dimes taken out of the offerings for decades. The last I saw them, there were big sacks of coins in the safe at TLW and in JRS' safe in his basement. He believed in the final days of tribulation people would only be able to get food with metals, even very cheap metal.

It's interesting to me that those coins were still at Shiloh.

Next to the coins in both safes were many silver bars, stacks of gold Krugerrands, and some diamond jewelry -- the diamonds from one big ring was later used in diamond rings for G&M and Marilyn's kids. Some gold and silver were secretly cashed in when JRS died so that it could be put as cash in offerings. G&M were very concerned because the financial side in JRS's divorce was still pending when he died. They did a lot of hiding. And a lot of laundering. IMHO.

I am sure nothing of great value was left at Shiloh. Remember, TLW folks showed up with a truck last year after the big explosion of truth and removed who knows what.

Onion wrote:
Next to the coins in both safes were many silver bars, stacks of gold Krugerrands, and some diamond jewelry -- the diamonds from one big ring was later used in diamond rings for G&M and Marilyn's kids. Some gold and silver were secretly cashed in when JRS died so that it could be put as cash in offerings. G&M were very concerned because the financial side in JRS's divorce was still pending when he died. They did a lot of hiding. And a lot of laundering. IMHO.

'Growing Rich in God'
/s

A few posts from August of 2013:

Posted by: Invisible
Date: August 16, 2013 01:35AM

Some years after I left the church, I spoke on the phone, with one of the apostolic ministries some time in the 1990's. He cried when he told me that the ministry had separated his wife from him.- I wish I would have been able to talk with him about so many of the answers that I would find later - as to the why's.

He was a lawyer by profession and he loved the scriptures and he had a zeal for the Lord and a love for the people but he was caught up and taken captive in his thinking just like so many of us had been in one way or another.. He cried as he was telling me how they had separated him from his wife -and now divorced and in so much pain and grieving and an old man alone and on his own - I had last heard only that he was spoken of as being in rebellion because he wasn't willing to leave the area he was living in and had resisted moving to another state to pastor where they had made a decision he should go.

He kept asking me how I was doing and he was genuinely concerned how things had turned out for me - in his soul he was making an apology to me for what he had participated in against me - now he knew and I knew he was ever so sorry - but it was too overwhelming and devastating for him to wrap his heart and mind around .But I heard him, and I understood him and we made peace that day -not that I had held anything against him, his soul made an apology to me, not with words of an apology but the same as. But I could do nothing to be of help to him, I was still picking up my own pieces and putting my own life back together in so many areas. And he was in the midst of fresh ruin and it was just to big for me, I assured him I was Okay and I was okay, I just had a lot of things to work out. At that time all I had to offer him was my ear and my shoulder.

2013 all these years later - and they don't get it yet. It is not okay to destroy another person's relationships.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: August 16, 2013 03:47PM

I knew this man well. I watched him being dismantled by those he had entrusted himself to. He gave me forewarning what was coming. When he was eventually stripped of his ministry, and no longer with his wife, I was made aware of the attitude I was to have toward him...which I never accepted. He did not diminish in my sight, nor in my wife's. The merciless treatment bestowed upon him from Marilyn and Gary finally forced me to recognize what they were really about...power, and all the ugliness that goes along with it.

Posted by: Chaos1952
Date: August 16, 2013 04:06PM

Eventually Gary and Marilyn Hargrave are going to wish they had some friends, there is an old saying here in the South, "the sun don't shine in the same hog's @$$ all the time," meaning, there comes a time when a person realizes they have alienated too many people along the way. I can't fathom why the churches in other parts of the country put up with their garbage for this many years. There seems to be a basic lack of the spirit of the rebel I guess. Of course, "rebelliousness" is considered a bad attribute among cult elitist, and I guess the Living Word Fellowship pretty much tells us why.

Posted by: paleface
Date: August 16, 2013 05:43PM

The unwritten mission statement of the Living Word is "to build wealth for Gary, Marilyn and Rick". The actions of this cult suggest this. For many years, the local churches outside of LA were required to tithe 80% of their income (local tithes) directly to APCO. I suspect this is still the case, but with numbers dwindling, this amount must be dwindling as well. It made it very difficult to run a local church and perform normal maintenance tasks. It demonstrated just how little care or consideration G&M have for the "little people".