Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Onion wrote:
> > My cousin in Iowa shared with me that the
> > English River offshoot of Shiloh, had an email
> > from Steve Seboldt (which was read aloud in
> their
> > Zoom service) where he said TLW is moving to
> > Georgia. He also said the TLW properties in
> > California are all up for sale. He also
> > congratulated them on continuing to have
> services.
> > He also asked for money.
> > Also, the house in Kalona where Chris and Molly
> > Reeves lived is up for sale. Chris operated
> Shiloh
> > U out of that house. The Reeves and Shiloh U
> are
> > moving to California.
> >
> Business above all else. Isn't that what Jesus
> preached? ;)
>
> Onion and Changed,
>
> The more things change the more they stay the
> same. Renaming churches and declaring that the
> cult formerly known as The Living Word Fellowship
> (also formerly known as The Walk) is gone from the
> face of the earth seems ridiculous when we all
> know that nothing has changed. It is merely
> another sleight of hand.


With any luck at all it will be a "kinder, gentler machince gun hand" that rules the new rebranded NOT The Living Word Church

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too bad back in the day no one had the foresight
> to suggest this as a possible Kingdom Business:
> 'Scandal Moving Company.'
> Disregard this comment.

Flash from the past!!

I have a name for that Scandal Moving Company...how about American Way Moving and Storage... they still owe me a new lower back :)

A few posts from February of 2019:

Posted by: Tmason
Date: February 13, 2019 09:48PM

Speaking of how the G&M dynasty drummed out any would be competitors....I was thinking that its seems very odd that the extremely popular elders that were beaten with an organic carrot and hung by their toes to dry seem to have family members that assumed leadership roles after their executions. Think Leilani, Sarah Statton Raba and her husband Bob..are there more that I don't know? Seems odd to me that the kids learned NOTHING from the way their parents were treated.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: February 13, 2019 11:58PM

Damn TMason...I was thinking the very same thing this morning. Not only were these competitors demeaned and driven out, their offspring were often co-opted by G & M. I could add to the list you made (quite a few names comes to mind), but I'm hesitant to do so.
How cruel: 'not only are we going to spread lies about you, defame you before the congregation, but usurp your place in your own family.' That's wicked power. I would shame these leaders (some now dead--like John and Marilyn), but sociopaths experience little if any shame. They just exploit the blind faith of their followers.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: February 15, 2019 06:38AM

With all due respect to the lovely calls for forgiveness, I would like to point out that many people posting here (especially women and those who were minors at the time) have had forgiveness shoved down their throats for most of their lives while those hurting them gleefully piled abuse upon abuse. It is not healthy to ignore our own process because "someone" tells us that the correct procedure is to forgive. Right now. Or else. Or we're not a "good" person.

[www.psychologytoday.com]

"Forgiveness can be sweet and healing; that’s no lie. But please, before counseling forgiveness, take heed of the power and diversity of injuries as well as the nature of the person or group you are counseling. If we counsel forgiveness as a general practice, we turn a blind eye to so many—a blind eye that may put salt on wounds or add a layer of shame for those whom forgiveness is not the next step."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2021 12:27AM by changedagain.

A few posts from July, 2020 on the subject of forgiveness and 'gossip':

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: July 11, 2020 05:27AM

Hi corboy,

Nice to hear from you. This subject of demands for forgiveness seems to keep coming up. Frankly, I have trouble taking this kind of religious pomposity at face value. It reminds me of one of the last services I attended in TLWF. The golden boy had transgressed, yet again. Most people knew that something was not right. The apostolic company gathered to address the flock. What words of wisdom did they have for the wounded sheep? "Don't gossip."

Don't gossip. It was as though nothing this idiot had done could compare with the idea that two of the lowly sheep might discuss his actions. Unbelievable. Years later, we would learn that this person not only cheated on and divorced four wives, but had actually molested children of people in the group. And those in positions of authority had covered it up. But not gossiping would fix everything. The idiocy is astounding.

And of course, when everything hit the fan, the next bit of wisdom was...forgive. Pretending that they cared for the souls of the congregants, when clearly they were only trying to remain in power to cheat, hurt and steal for a little longer. I can't forgive the vast amount of destruction they caused. A person who had any kind of conscience would be on their knees begging forgiveness of the people they had injured. But narcissists are incapable of such feelings. No, I will not forgive them.

Posted by: puddington
Date: July 11, 2020 11:06AM

Certainly Rick Holbrook will not be getting any forgiveness from destroyed sheep.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: July 12, 2020 12:11AM

Reep wrote:
Don't gossip. It was as though nothing this idiot had done could compare with the idea that two of the lowly sheep might discuss his actions.

I bet much of the 'gossip' consisted of parents warning other parents to keep their daughters out of Rick's orbit, if possible. This type of 'gossip' will flourish if the authority structure is corrupt, concerned more about protecting predators and its own image, than vulnerable members of the fellowship. If people speak openly, it is a given they will be exposed and discredited/humiliated before the congregation...leading to a severance of relationships with other "members of the body" and possibly a division within their own family that could be permanent in nature. The payback would be vicious.

Posted by: Tmason
Date: February 13, 2019 09:48PM

Speaking of how the G&M dynasty drummed out any would be competitors....I was thinking that its seems very odd that the extremely popular elders that were beaten with an organic carrot and hung by their toes to dry seem to have family members that assumed leadership roles after their executions. Think Leilani, Sarah Statton Raba and her husband Bob..are there more that I don't know? Seems odd to me that the kids learned NOTHING from the way their parents were treated.

****************************

Those children of ousted leaders had, no doubt, been brainwashed to believe Walk leaders over their "disgraced parents". It was done to me too. Although my mom was not a leader, she was important to me. She was also a paper editor at TLW. I was told to stay away from her during a very difficult time in my life. She must have known something that they didn't want her to tell me. TLWF leaders have no shame in this and many other areas. Interrupted parenting is not ok.

Reep wrote:
Although my mom was not a leader, she was important to me. She was also a paper editor at TLW. I was told to stay away from her during a very difficult time in my life. She must have known something that they didn't want her to tell me.

yes, most likely


Excerpt of a post by 'reveal' from September 2018:

Posted by: reveal
Date: September 02, 2018 12:52AM

Let's just assume for a moment that brainwashing doesn't exist. It doesn't change the fact that TLWF uses manipulation, coercion and emotional blackmail to convince members to accept things that under normal circumstances they would find totally unacceptable. They have created a culture of fear and intimidation, in which they threaten to ostracize those who question or disparage their decisions and mandates. Brainwashing or not, TLWF exercises extreme psychological abuse and control to manipulate members into bending to their will. They deceive good people who are either too naive or too afraid to question extremely questionable behavior by leadership.

Additionally, no organization truly representative of God would do any of the following:

1. Separate people from their biological families because said families have negative opinions about the church.

2. Encourage couples to divorce when one decides to leave the church and the other does not wish to.

3. Fire longtime loyal employees and pastors who dare question anything that Rick or Gary & Marilyn does, and then withhold severance pay unless they sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement. Clearly, they have much to hide.

4. Command submission of every decision in people's lives to include dating, marriage, having children, where to live, what job to take, to go to University or not, etc. and if people decide not to submit these things, to at a minimum withdraw affection and ostracize them from their church family, or disparage their character, make a pariah out of them, gossip about them and accuse them of *GASP*...an independent spirit. And these are only the least of what I've seen done.

5. Demand unquestioning allegiance to the leaders and place loyalty to them above any other relationship in your life or any sense of right and wrong.

6. Protect and keep in positions of authority a leader who has perpetrated multiple acts of sexual misconduct and harassment and abused church finances for his own personal enjoyment, and expect members to just accept it, while members themselves are held to a much higher standard.

I could go on..

A few posts referencing Jean Koonz (sp), from all the way back to 2006...or approximately 11,850 comments ago:

Posted by: righteous mama
Date: January 20, 2006 04:57AM

My neighbor was highly involved in this cult and I attended with them many times. They went to the North Hollywood church...and Anaheim. I took piano lessons from Jean Koonz (sp?) I remember JRS and remember when he died. I have odd memories from that time. I spent the night in the Blix House. One of the girls taught me to peel carrots there. (Funny what you remember) And I remember the pathway behind the house that led to JRS's house.

I remember my friend's sister's wedding. Odd. I remember a lot...but I'm not sure I should put down all my memories here. I wouldn't want anything to backfire on my friend.

Posted by: walking wounded
Date: April 05, 2006 11:37PM

Hi, righteous mama. I just found this forum and read your post. Yes, I attended both Anaheim and NoHo...as well as several others. You could say I was "born into it" right at the beginning since I was in JRS's family. Talk about your nightmare memories! I remember Jean Koonz, she was a very nice lady. I don't know what has happened to most of the people as I left the scene in 1979 and, until I found this forum, have never heard anything about "my old life". I remember the path between Bix and JRS's house...past the hot tub pool and sauna. Boy this is bringing back (too many!!) memories. Nice to hear from you. If you have any questions or comments directed to me, please don't hesitate.
Regards

"I remember the path between Blix and JRS's house...past the hot tub pool and sauna."

Wasn't John transported 7 years into the future to witness the coming Kingdom, while spending time in the hot tub with a friend?
Wait...I'm probably getting walk stories mixed up.
Please disregard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2021 02:18AM by changedagain.

A post from November of 2016 regarding the continued promotion of John's 1972 "vision":

Posted by: Saw enough
Date: November 16, 2016 10:16PM

Gary has persisted in promoting the vision JRS allegedly had in 1972 seeing 7 years into the Kingdom, even though one of the Blix girls at that time told Gary and Marilyn that she had been with John Stevens that entire day. This was common knowledge among the Living Word Building gossips. It was bad enough that John felt the need to cover for his day-long disappearance with a fantastic story about his vision and being caught up in the spirit so that he lost all track of time. But for Gary and Marilyn to continue to peddle the vision as a selling point for how they are the fulfillment of that prophetic community seems cynical and horrific.

All I can say is, once you see the crazy, you can't unsee it. Keep your BS detectors tuned up. There's a LOT of crazy out there.