Regarding the "transition" in leadership from John to G & M:

Posted by: kBOY
Date: October 16, 2018 12:56PM

ONION:

P l e a s e regale us ASAP with the whole JRS>>MS>>GH/MH transition details, as they seem to have been given a TOP SECRET classification, with access given only to those who have something to hide.

With all the b a g i l l i o n tapes recording every anointed fart ever released, why was there NEVER an 'official' recording of this most important transition detail, since the fellowship was expected to hang their hats on an 'official' transferring of the torch, and not on some late night coup.


Posted by: Onion
Date: October 16, 2018 03:10PM

The JRS-> Gary transition. Holy crap where to start.

Not long after the open house at Kling and the procession of people paying last respects and the subsequent temporary interment of JRS' body at Valhalla, a bunch of us went to Las Vegas. I don't know why the decision was made to go there but for people living in shock and dismay and grief, it was kind of a cool atmosphere because you could wander around in the middle of the, have a drink, smoke a cigarette, and cry and feel totally private. My two cents at that time.

The people who went included Marilyn, Gary & Donna, Me & Dan, Marti, and I think that's all for the one car but I think Rick and Tami came in another car.

Not long after we arrived, spouses were sent home including Dan, Donna and I don't know who else but it seems like more people were there and left.

Not long after that (few days max) Gary and I were walking into the hotel (Dunes) after parking the car and Gary told me he was in love with Marilyn. I remember saying yes I loved her a lot too and then realizing what he meant and I said "Wait - you mean as in love want to kiss her and make out and have sex love her?" and he said YES. Then he told me she loved him too. From then on Marti and I shared a room and Marilyn was shown on the registration as being in our room but she was in Gary's room. Rick and Tami were there for part of this but they may have gone home and come back. Rick and Tami were FURIOUS. A huge family division started between them and G&M at that point and for our sakes, it would have been nice if it had continued.

All together we were in Las Vegas I think for about 5 or 6 weeks. When we got back to L.A. I continued my routine of pretty much living at Kling only now it was with Gary & Marilyn. Gary separated from Donna and was sleeping in the middle yard shed that we had previously used as a meeting room. The dispute with Rick and Tami continued and there were lots of meetings in the backyard with various ministries like John Miller, Brent Finney, and I don't know who else. I was at the house but I was not included in any of these meetings even though JRS always had me attend his meetings because I was like the record keeper and person to follow through. So I knew these meetings were "heavy duty" and very secret. I was told that there was a general uprising among all the brothers over who would take over the church. JRS had left instructions for Marilyn to be the one who took over (I didn't see documents but I heard JRS say this long before he was terribly ill in instructions he gave Dan Statton).

We made another lengthy visit to Las Vegas a few weeks later - I don't remember the timing. We stayed in moderate priced rooms like motels with kitchenettes. They sent for Larry Cotton to join us and during that time Marilyn tried to engineer a relationship for me with Cotton that didn't work out, thank God. But I was told I should get a divorce too. Now that I am free from the nonsense of thinking everything Marilyn did was holy and anointed, I have a lot of regrets from that period of time regarding Dan. He had been JRS' friend and confidante, had cared for him in the sick room, had helped hide all of JRS' stuff after he died and then was treated like he was not even human. So awful.

If I remember correctly, Gary was one of the head guy's at ApCo and I think JRS had commissioned him over CLW and some other locations to bring the word. So he already had standing and a position in the church and probably in peoples' minds.

Slowly but surely G&M started telling people about their relationship. I was aware only of all the people who backed them and celebrated the idea. On March 17, 1984 they had a backyard party and got married informally by the pool (legally with a marriage license, etc.) so then they could live together without having a third party around to make it look kosher. I don't remember the date Gary's divorce from Donna was final but it couldn't have been very long before this March date even if it was only a status only divorce.

The party for the secret wedding was a drunken brawl as you might imagine.

Then slowly but surely Gary kept moving towards the goal of Kingship with his Queen next to him and the rest is history. There was no legal documentation that I am aware of pertaining to Gary taking this role so any legal passage of the baton was probably done through corporate documents especially after Hargrave Family Ministries was incorporated and given nonprofit status as the organization that governs all others. They hired me as their lawyer to get the nonprofit status so that had to be in 1993/94.

Posted by: Twoteetwo
Date: October 16, 2018 03:57PM

Onion, thank you for shining light into very dark corners. My husband and I began to think about leaving when Gary left Donna and baby, and married Marilyn. We thought it was so wrong, but reading the posts, things were worse than we imagined. We were such suckers. We finally left after attending a service in Honolulu where a kamikaze-committed worker from LA stood and spent many minutes pledging her undying allegiance to Marilyn, and Marilyn sat there beaming, soaking it all in. I blame no one but JRS and G&M, but have to acknowledge that if I had been closer to the center of that skewed universe, but for the grace of God, it would have been me pledging my allegiance to M and the new order. So glad you made it out and are peeling back the layers of deception.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2020 03:38AM by changedagain.

C H A N G E D

Considering the cast of characters that ONION lists who were privy to these sordid details, and probably others she failed to mention, it is sad there was not at least one whistle-blower in all of APCO leadership and support staff with enough integrity to blow the lid off the whole ugly affair.

I guess we were not as SPIRITUAL as we thought.

kBOY wrote:
Considering the cast of characters that ONION lists who were privy to these sordid details, and probably others she failed to mention, it is sad there was not at least one whistle-blower in all of APCO leadership and support staff with enough integrity to blow the lid off the whole ugly affair.

I recall listening to one of those restricted tapes following John's death, and Marilyn admitted she keeps files on people close to her, presumably to deter them from speaking out against her.

C H A N G E D

"Marilyn admitted she keeps files on people close to her, presumably to deter them from speaking out against her."

The more details that come to light, we realize TLW was run more like a fascist state than a 'move of god'.

Secret files for blackmail material. Just like Scientology.

October 2018 posts continued...

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 17, 2018 09:29AM

I plan to have a few friends over at my place next week, former members of TLWF. It's been a long time since I socialized with anyone, so I'm a bit rusty at this.
I did email a few parameters that I expect they will agree to before arriving. I hope what I wrote (below) is not in any way offensive:

"I'm not used to having anyone over, so I'm likely to overlook some basics. But here goes: the drinks I have in my home are water, gatorade (purple), beer and Maker's Mark whisky. There's three chairs out back. I might rope off an area...have a couple chairs on one side of the rope, and a lone VIP chair on the other. Once you arrive, we can discuss who will sit on the VIP chair.

p.s. haven't decided about plastic cups vs. glass...cover charge...if I should be shit-faced when you arrive etc. I'll be praying about that today. Look forward to seeing you again!

Posted by: I_woke_up
Date: October 17, 2018 10:08AM

Don't forget to add something along the lines of your shit being on their calendar!

Posted by: Unapologetic Apologetic
Date: October 19, 2018 09:02AM

Reveal, who was it that was charging $40 to attend Marilyn's funeral? Was that per person? I went but don't remember paying anything, although my spouse and sister in law made all the arrangements so I may not be aware that we had to pay also.

Posted by: reveal
Date: October 19, 2018 12:44PM

Yes, it was $40 per person. I don't know if locals to Shiloh had to register and pay, but we were coming from out of town and were told by our local pastors that if we wanted to attend the Shiloh funeral, we had to register on the TLWF Members site and pay the fee. I would assume some people didn't do this and just showed up, but that was what they were asking people to do, nonetheless...

C H A N G E D

When you, PUDD, and I got together on Oct 23 for our 4-hour quorum, the one thing I remember was how awesome the reconnection was, and the remark being made at the end that if similar meetings were to proliferate among other expats, it would eventually lead to the downfall of TLW.

It was only two days later (Oct 25) that Shalom posted her disclosure on Facebook, and the walls began to tumble.

C H A N G E D

When you, PUDD, and I got together on Oct 23 for our 4-hour quorum, the one thing I remember was how awesome the reconnection was, and the remark being made at the end that if similar meetings were to proliferate among other expats, it would eventually lead to the downfall of TLW.

Yes. The retention of power within TLW leadership was dependent on suppressing communication among expats, and those still in the fellowship with those who left.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2020 02:44AM by changedagain.

Posted by: Onion
Date: October 20, 2018 10:42AM

Since Gary has announced he wants people to write letters so he can make his "new 360" evaluation, I decided to send him a letter. I don't have any illusions that he will do anything with this information but I at least wanted to take away his ability to say he had never heard of any of this stuff, as he lied about recently.

October 14, 2018
(Spelling & Grammar Corrections 10-17-18)

Sent by U.S. Mail to:
Gary Hargrave c/o Amy Sayer
Gary Hargrave c/o The Living Word

Sent by Email to:
Gary@
Bseboldt@

Dear Gary,

Over the past two years I have been advised by many people who are no longer part of the TLW fellowship, by others who may continue to be part of the church but who are struggling, and from those they may still be in contact with, that there are several issues that undermine any trust people may have of TLWF leadership and ApCo. There are many sticking points that could hinder the future success of the churches if not addressed and repaired.

1. Rick Holbrook: According to information from many former and current TLWF members, Rick has established himself in everyone’s minds as a sexual predator. There are many victims of inappropriate sexual conduct perpetrated by Rick in various church locations and at his home. In his “work with young people” he tends to take advantage of young women, and in some cases young men. His conduct is often defined as “grooming” young girls and women using tactics such as bombarding his subject with flattery, gifts, promises of them becoming “family,” emphasizing how special they are and how great their life would be if they would be with Rick. He ramps up his seduction attempts based on his representations to these women and girls that as JRS’ true son, it is the will of God for these women and girls to have sex with him, and that JRS would want them to be with Rick. He apparently tells women that the way they can bring in the kingdom is by being in a sexually intimate relationship with him. Some women have resisted after being lied to, pursued intensely with gifts and alcohol, and in many instances, overt sexual touching of breasts and genitals. Rick has even physically picked up women in his arms and carried her. Those who firmly and completely deny him, suffer consequences such as shunning, having their reputations tarnished and they are called sluts and other demeaning names behind the scenes. Sadly some of these women/girls have said that it was hard to discover they weren’t special after all when the truth is they were always special and Rick was preying on them.

On many different occasions, Rick hosts “young people” at his house for a Jacuzzi party and shares pornographic material and discusses sexual content and asks sexually graphic questions to the group, some of whom are underage.

Many of these women have communicated with various shepherds, including those in leadership in Shiloh, TLW, and CLW and including you and Marilyn. Each communication has resulted in no action. In some cases, after communication the women were overtly shunned and shamed. In other cases the women were asked to never speak of it again and to not keep a record of their communication.

2. School Employees & Ministers Education in Reporting Abuse: Many people have reported that instances of abuse, underage drinking (with the alcohol furnished by teachers, administrators and ministries), assaults or evident abuse, have occurred and none of those who are required by law to report such abuse have done so. Several former teachers have related that while in public school, and many private schools, a detailed training class in mandatory reporting laws is given so all teachers and school employees learn to recognize the signs of abuse and how their suspicions must be reported. Nothing like that occurs in TLWF schools or churches. Girls have made reports only to be told they are overreacting.

3. Parenting Interruption: Many people bear emotional scars because of a pattern of separating parents and children because someone in authority in the school or the church places themselves in a position of “knowing better” how a child should be raised. Parents have sometimes been belittled, treated in a dismissive manner, or spoken about in a negative way to the child. Many adults who suffered under this type of behavior are still struggling with negative conditioning from the experience. Likewise, parents still suffer with guilt over allowing someone to usurp their parental role and allowing their children to be used in this way.

4. Lack of Financial Honesty or Transparency: People who have given their lives and their time and money to TLWF and “Kingdom Businesses” have nothing to show for their hard work and dedication. Many were supporting a vision presented by TLWF leaders that is either no longer focused on or represents an ideal that just lingers in the realm of unfulfilled dreams. Seeing money received from the sacrifice of the people making certain leaders’ lives very cushy while some of the congregants live from pay check to pay check is deeply hurtful. In addition, the enormity of funds (including funds saved by using volunteer labor for personal projects) used on projects like the party house on Rayen with its elegant horse facility, the various bars (multiple bars) set up in locations throughout the churches, personal home maintenance and remodeling, the Christmas truck and its grueling schedule of work, etc., is beginning to take a serious toll on the emotions and trust of many current congregants. The toll especially shows in those who couldn’t take it anymore and left. Volunteers are employees and yet have no benefit of their employment by TLWF except maybe an occasional shout out from the pulpit, as if that moment of attention will make up for weeks, months, years of labor.

5. Attitudes & Lack of Training in Shepherds: A refrain that is exactly the same from each and every individual who has spoken concerning their past or current experience as a member of TLWF is the harsh treatment of being casually dealt with by the leadership and those called shepherds. Recrimination for behavior that was previously praised is frequent. There is no follow up with the persons disciplined and if the person departs the fellowship, no one bothers to call to find out how the person is doing. A large number of these people were giving, dedicated members for as many as 40 years, or their entire lives. The dismissal of shepherds who disappear without the congregants understanding ANYthing is frequent. Some people have called this a pattern of getting rid of the people who know too much about Rick, financial improprieties, and other wrongdoings. That’s the way it appears to people who see it happen but are never told the truth.

6. Confidentiality. People generally do not feel that their privacy is respected or protected in any situation where they pour out their hearts to TLWF leadership. Some people were made aware that Rick has wired CLW for sound and for visual surveillance or recording so that he or others can record, listen to, or watch any meetings in any location at CLW, TLW, Shiloh and many other places.


I hope this is helpful to you in your review of church policies and procedures. Whether each fact stated is true is not for me to say. Independent investigation and transparency would be a solution.

If you wish to speak directly to any of the people I am quoting, some of them would be willing to participate in a meeting with you and others. Just let me know via email at: m-wyatt@ and I will do my best to coordinate this for you.

Sincerely,

(Originals with signature will be sent to the USPS locations noted above.)

Mary L. Wyatt

Posted by: larry bobo
Date: October 21, 2018 12:18PM

Onion – Thank you for articulating so well several issues that have deeply wounded members of TLWF. Thank you also for making your letter public so that those in and out of TLWF will be able to witness Gary’s response to what you have written. I’m hoping that it will bear fruit. I’m sure Gary will at least read it. I sent a similar letter on January 9, 1994 listing 7 areas of concern – all different from yours (e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979, John bringing down Satan with his death from cancer, and the isolation of TLWF from other Christian groups – FYI, 24 years later I still question all 7 areas). Their response was to remove me from all ministry and not allow me to speak in services (including prayer and prophesy) for the next year until I learned not to question the leadership. I had simply responded after being encouraged to speak up if we had areas of concern – similar to what people are being encouraged to do now. Hopefully you will have more leverage by communicating from outside TLWF and the manipulation of the leadership.

I’m also grateful for some of the things you have confirmed that many have suspected. Since all of us are human, we have a pretty good idea of what humans are capable of doing. However, it may be a little shocking for some to find out that “Christ in the flesh” has been doing the very things that they have told us not to do. They are only as much “Christ in the flesh” as they have conned us into believing – not as evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit in their lives. Also, they only have as much control over our lives as we choose to give them. Part of our journey to freedom is making the decision to give them nothing and accepting responsibility for our own lives.

C H A N G E D

I'm sure that after soliciting all that 'fan mail', that is when all the rats began to abandon ship.