Position thinking is what downgrades what is organic (GOSPEL OF LOVE) into organization (religion).  There is nothing Jesus taught that would lend itself to what Christianity has become, and the subsequent abuses that followed.

It is challenging to transform LOVE CREATOR/LOVE CREATION into a hierarchy, but the world has managed to downgrade organic LOVE into divide, conquer and o r g a n i z e.

typer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I tried position thinking with the puppies
> but it didn't work. When I was eating bacon, one
> of them sits on his back legs. When they look at
> me with their puppy eyes; the next thing I know,
> the bacon finds their mouths. It just seems to
> always find their eagerly waiting mouths. They are
> definitely in charge. Good thing nobody knows of
> me not showing them how to be properly obedient;
> all they seem to know is unconditional love. Oh
> well, what the cult leaders don't know won't hurt
> me.

Puppies are rarely impressed by position-thinking. They're more into teaching their humans to give lots of treats and follow their directions. Lol.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jhorning wrote:
> He told me what I did in the past doesn't count
> and I couldn't be an elder unless I came up under
> him.
>
> I would point out Walk/TLWF ministries' obsession
> with position thinking, but that would indicate
> that perhaps I am obsessed with position thinking,
> so I've decided to stay clear of mentioning or
> even thinking about position thinking...which
> actually might make it more probable that I
> will at least think about position
> thinking, since it is human nature to think about
> what you're not supposed to think about. Anyway, I
> certainly don't want to go down that path--it
> seems like a trap. That said, it sure would be
> nice to be a Chancellor for a day. Oops.


Changed, just the fact that you mentioned position-thinking shows that you HAVE position-thinking. It's like you NOTICED and POINTED OUT that the pastors have fancy wine glasses while everyone else has plastic. That makes you the position-oriented person. Not them. It doesn't make sense. You can't use your carnal mind to grasp this. You need a revelation. /s ; )

Yes, Reepicheep. I couldn't have said it better.

Reepicheep Wrote:

> Changed, just the fact that you mentioned
> position-thinking shows that you HAVE
> position-thinking. It's like you NOTICED and
> POINTED OUT that the pastors have fancy wine
> glasses while everyone else has plastic. That
> makes you the position-oriented person. Not them.
> It doesn't make sense. You can't use your carnal
> mind to grasp this. You need a revelation. /s ; )

Yes, that captures it.

A couple posts by Paleface from 2011:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: paleface
Date: February 09, 2011 07:46AM

The feeling of "not measuring up" in the LW is strong, even today with the current word. It took me a bit of time to shake all of that off. With prayer and seeking Him, the Lord convinced me that He loved me even with my flaws and it was OK. All OK.

Do you remember the phrase "You're killing John" ? This was said to people who were not toe-ing the line correctly, in the late 70's and early 80's. The responsibility of God not moving John into resurrection life was laid upon the congregation. We were told (mostly by MH) that we weren't praying hard enough or long enough. We needed to fast more. We weren't doing all-night prayer meetings enough. Etc. etc. And when John finally died....guess who's fault it was for him passing away? You guessed it. Many of us carried a sense of guilt for John's death for many years afterwards. It didn't help with MH saying stuff like "I don't need you. I have to move fast to get John back.". We were again blamed, this time for not bringing John back. Guilt - all the way around. Gosh, I don't miss that!

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: paleface ()
Date: March 24, 2011 08:28AM

Gary has recently admitted over the pulpit "Some mistakes have been made in the past. We are not perfect.". But that's about the extent of it. You don't get any details about what he is referring to and there is no indication of repentance of corrections to the sources of the mistakes.....unless blame was placed on a person and that person was removed from leadership. And, I guess it is easy to fault JRS and claim "His big error was not opening up to Marilyn all the way". The hint is that John missed the mark here. Was that the "big mistake" ? I don't think so.

But what I find disturbing is apparently no discussion about words that were brought that appear to have been flawed. No discussion about "Satan being brought down by John"....or... "The Kingdom is coming in 1979". No revision of unfulfilled prophecy. It's as if these words from JRS and G&M stand true and are 100% perfect. Nothing is revised or edited as it stands up in the face of time and what has transpired. And, like you said, if you question this, you are regarding in the fellowship as someone with a "critical spirit" and thus being a vessel of witchcraft.

I'm sorry, but the words and theology are just as imperfect as the vessels that speak them.

C H A N G E D


Paleface pretty much lists the entire rap-sheet of fallacies, false prophecies, and other anomalies in the FORCE, but never you mind, there will be those who discard all the evidence and trudge on to a new day will never come.

Caveat emptor.

kBOY Wrote:

> Paleface pretty much lists the entire
> rap-sheet of fallacies, false prophecies, and
> other anomalies in the FORCE, but never you mind,
> there will be those who discard all the evidence
> and trudge on to a new day will never come.

true

Post by Amos from May 2011:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Amos ()
Date: May 16, 2011 02:57AM

My wife and I tried several times to work with the Living Word Fellowship (TLWF) after we left over a decade ago. I was forced out in 1998 because I took exception to rubber stamped mandates being carried out in the local church without being submitted to the local elders for prayer first. I remember writing to the Hargraves that year, telling them that they may as well "take a shovel and bury the South Gate church" if things kept going the way they were. Of course, nothing changed, and South Gate ended up tearing itself apart. Last year I find out that somehow in the telling, that my wife had become personally responsible for destroying the South Gate church, manipulating me, and manipulating the pastor of South Gate at the time. Its strange how the leaders of the fellowship seem unable to take responsibility for what happens. It is always Satan, or a nephilim, or someone else, like my wife, that is the problem. I think that they tell themselves that if everybody would just be submissive, then all of these problems would go away.

I imagine all of the churches in TLWF (I have only been a part of seven of them), to one degree or another are infected with these odd ideas about Christ in the flesh, and it really did start with John Stevens who for all appearances did not really take correction very well from his peers and turned instead to an entirely new and younger generation. I still remember one service where John tried to correct people who were calling him "the Apostle," because as he explained it there were other apostles. One young man shouted out "our apostle is 'the apostle'." I am sure that John's generation has issues also, but it seems to me that putting all of those young people in charge of churches, without experience, training or a means of correction, was a recipe for disaster. Although well intentioned, I think all of those young people were just terrible pastors. Most, are still terrible pastors and now there is an entirely new generation being groomed who I fear will lower the bar even further.

I recall John Stevens himself saying that when you idolize someone, you always emulate the worst parts of their character. It seems to be a truth that is self-evident in the fellowship. Whatever John was, some say apostle, he was still flawed and I think he set the stage for what happened to the fellowship. The real problem with the Hargraves, and from what I can tell, most of the other leaders, is that they really do not listen very well to other people who might have a different perspective. After all, if you are Christ in the flesh, it is really other people who should be listening.

Apparently, Jesus was curious about reports regarding his identity, which I am sure covered a broad range of speculation, but when push came to shove, and he inquired from one who lived with him day and night, the revelation was clear. 

Compare that to the Christ-in-the-flesh dynamics of first, The Walk, and then TLW, where one was TOLD that another was 'Christ in the flesh', revelation be damned.  When something that nefarious is simply applied to an org-chart and given the endorsement of 'scripture', all manner of abuse is possible.

The backside of Jesus' life was open and evident to those closest to him, and they obviously witnessed that he walked what he talked, hence the revelation about him.  Contrast that with the hidden lives of both JRS and G&M, who made little attempt at walking their talk, and the fruits of those trees proved to be spoiled and rotten, harming many who chose to partake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2020 01:16PM by kBOY.