The money has been directed elsewhere, certainly not in the future of a healthy, growing church. To those who still choose to believe that ex-leaders have operated in good faith, and continue to do so now, I can only point out there is overwhelming evidence that suggests otherwise (to put it mildly).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2020 02:40AM by changedagain.

The churches that still allowed people to exercise a modicum of free will have been closed down one way or another. What seems to remain are a few churches which are entirely dedicated to slavishly follow Hargrave's random thought process. No room for individual thinking. No one needs to read the complaints. Move along. Nothing to see here. (Insert "Walk" buzzwords and dog whistles here.) It's all good. /s



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2020 04:18AM by Reepicheep.

Reep wrote:
"entirely dedicated to slavishly follow Hargrave's random thought process"

that's an apt description



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2020 04:49AM by changedagain.

Reep wrote:
The churches that still allowed people to exercise a modicum of free will have been closed down one way or another. What seems to remain are a few churches which are entirely dedicated to slavishly follow Hargrave's random thought process. No room for individual thinking.

Do you remember the feast services in the late 80's-early 90's (I think) when Silas would stand next to Gary on the platform and repeat every word he said in Portuguese for the benefit of the Brazilian churches that were listening in? I got the sense that Silas' subservience to Gary was supposed to set an example of the kind of relationships acceptable in the co-called Kingdom. 'Oneness' was really abject submission to authority. Never again.

p.s. I'm curious...how do you say "Anyone who asks me a question after the service will be punched in the face" in Portuguese?

Documents in the public record in the Los Angeles lawsuits show that all defendants in the 3 lawsuits have been served. The 4th lawsuit still has two defendants to serve. The defendants' answers/response is due to be filed on January 17, 2020.

The defense appears to have coverage from insurance on all the claims so there may not be a huge personal financial impact on those sued. I would think Rick Holbrook is in personal jeopardy because his actions were intentional but that is just an "IMO" guess.

O N I O N

Thanks for the update. Keep them coming.

Onion - what does this actually mean? An umbrella liability insurance, or ??


"The defense appears to have coverage from insurance on all the claims..."



Thanks!


P.S. Do you like how I'm absent from this forum for months and then randomly ask this question - LOL?

CHANGEAGAIN:

I think the main reason I was apprehensive about the level of intoxication within the ranks of 'ministries,' is that they were often assuming a role of managing (to put it lightly) people's lives. I've witnessed and also received truly bizarre directives from obviously drunk authorities. Yes, I suppose there might have been a few that could be reasonably functional while 'wasted,' but I think they were the exception. I think John set the tone in the 70's by admonishing the church about the toxicity of having an uptight 'religious spirit,' often citing the scripture about the Pharisees rebuking Jesus for being a 'winebibber.'

p.s. In spite of all this, I did try to show a modicum of respect for the 'Apostolic company,' never (to my knowledge) referring to them as the 'Alcoholic company'--just for the record.


I think I've mentioned this before, but my DR actually told me I needed to start drinking more. (Disclaimer: I actually do like a number of drinks but my stomach does not, per two ulcers acquired in my early 20's - probably brought on by the communal home I lived in!)

that little red flag Wrote:

> I think I've mentioned this before, but my DR
> actually told me I needed to start drinking more.
> (Disclaimer: I actually do like a number of
> drinks but my stomach does not, per two ulcers
> acquired in my early 20's - probably brought on by
> the communal home I lived in!)


Wow.

Little Red Flag - I like to hear from you ANY time. Nice to see you back here.

I don't have details about the policies in play in the lawsuits. It is my understanding that the policies on the church entities have a duty to defend. I'm not involved in the lawsuits other than what I can read in the public record. I watch the L.A. cases because they're at "my courthouse."