changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes--there was the normal church function
> drunkenness, and then there was the over the top
> (i.e. completely shitfaced) church function
> drunkenness.
> I concur.

Normal church function drunkenness. I think of this every single time someone says I don't recall that happening. Alcoholic black outs perhaps? Still BS.

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please - No one take what I posted earlier as an
> attack on victims who have not spoken out. I am
> critical of the people who refuse to be aware of
> what has been exposed and those who are VERY aware
> but continue to follow Gary and provide support
> for him and his "ascension" to his worldwide
> ministry bullsh-t.

I hear ya--it is appalling. His pursuit of a worldwide ministry, after laying waste to many innocent people's lives in his prior 'lower-level' ministry, is par for the course.

Lilith Wrote:
Normal church function drunkenness. I think of
this every single time someone says I don't recall
that happening. Alcoholic black outs perhaps?
Still BS.

Yeah, it is.

TLW seemed to excel at excess: irreligiousity, promiscuity, substance abuse, neglect (of the abused), grandiosity, exclusivity, double-standards, hypocrisy, pomposity, arrogance, etc.

Please feel free to add to the list.

(2019--good riddance.)

I think the main reason I was apprehensive about the level of intoxication within the ranks of 'ministries,' is that they were often assuming a role of managing (to put it lightly) people's lives. I've witnessed and also received truly bizarre directives from obviously drunk authorities. Yes, I suppose there might have been a few that could be reasonably functional while 'wasted,' but I think they were the exception. I think John set the tone in the 70's by admonishing the church about the toxicity of having an uptight 'religious spirit,' often citing the scripture about the Pharisees rebuking Jesus for being a 'winebibber.'

p.s. In spite of all this, I did try to show a modicum of respect for the 'Apostolic company,' never (to my knowledge) referring to them as the 'Alcoholic company'--just for the record.

I have in the past and currently refer to them as the "Alcoholic company". I have no plans to repent.

Lilith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have in the past and currently refer to them as
> the "Alcoholic company". I have no plans to
> repent.

If I wasn't afraid of losing my alcoholic covering...I mean, apostolic covering, I would do the same :)

Dead on:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Lilith ()
Date: November 10, 2018 06:33AM

Oh NEO, please, you are completely discounting mind control and brainwashing. In the 70’s you had a huge influx of young impressionable people looking for something, wanting to part of something bigger than themselves, looking for meaning. They were conditioned to do the will of whatever by getting whipped up (I refer to the wackadoodle intercession), exhausting service schedules and the need for external validation. Stop victim blaming. There were dozens of techniques that were used by those in power to get and keep that control a few being turning your back on your “non walk” family, nuggets of recognition and my personal favorite the service starts at 8 and the rock star shows up 2 to 3 hours later, that’s a great one, at that point people will believe anything especially if they have been screaming, moaning and babbling for hours. I won’t even go into the suppression of education and independent thinking. I could name on one hand people that could resist that and you don’t want to meet any of them in a dark alley. It’s brain wiring and early childhood conditioning that allows them to resist. Some of us were raised to question everything in a time when children were seen and not heard and to do as they were told, that was rare at that time. If you are here telling everyone that they did it to themselves then you are either still in it or one of the perpetrators. And yes, you state the correct scripture but if you tell the same lie over and over doubling down and fear monger along the way you can convince people of anything by preying on their fears, even the preferred political views fed into it, fear everything “other”. The living word was like Lucy with the football, you were accepted but it could be snatched away at any minute.

kBOY Wrote:

> (2019--good riddance.)

Yes

A good friend of mine from Sylmar High School just wrote me on facebook and shared with me his brush with TLWF and JRS:

So Mary... A few years after high school in the early 70's I was an active Christian in Baptist church in the Valley when I met a girl at camp who invited me to come to her church. She was very insistent and it sounded interesting. Brother Stevens was teaching. The teaching was pretty fresh and quite inspiring and compelling, but the pre worship really intrigued me. Kind of a free worship style with people singing in the Spirit. Beautiful tunes and harmonies and very powerful. But very in order and seemingly appropriate.

But then something happened that wasn't right. I knew it right away in my spirit. There was pressure for those of us visiting or new to stay and be prayed for and ministered to by leaders. This seemed awkward and the girl felt my discomfort but really wanted me to stay. I did not. But she pressured me daily for weeks to come back. She quoted scriptures, quoted Brother Stevens and laid some pretty heavy guilt on me. I was torn, but actually let the girl go, because it crossed my mind and heart that this was a cult and that the teaching was manipulative and not sound. I tried to warn the girl that it was off and that ahe should get out of it. She cut me off and judged my faith and experience harshly. So we drifted apart quickly.

I remember two things distinctly. How attractive it was, and how wrong it was too. I remember thinking how easy it would be to be seduced by it and felt bad for those involved. There was a "spiritual arrogance" that was both alluring and sickening. I kept my distance but warned many people about it. I got shunned by everyone I knew associated with Living Word. Haven't been in touch since. But, always sensed that it would some day blow up.

So here we are. I have been a Pastor or Youth minister in Baptist churches for about 50 years. I was very touched by your testimony. May the Lord Himself bless your heart with only the truth of His gospel good news that loves you and may you be blessed with the grace, joy and mercy of knowing Him. Thanks for your transparent and sincere sharing. I keep praying now for all who have been hurt and victimized by this selfish group of self-ordained charlatans and the folks who were used by them. Thanks for reading my story. Blessings again on your free heart to love God and be loved by Him on His terms only. In Him, Fred