Reep - You got some nasty focus that's for sure. By safe, I meant within the people who genuinely post. Not the trolls. There have been many.

O N I O N

"No matter the cause of the trauma, the panic of feeling unsafe is genuine."

ABSOLUTELY, and the context will be unique for each, and is not subject to comparison one to another.

We live in a world that begins with a traumatic birth and can go quickly downhill from there if the provision for healing that experience (a LOVING home life--define it as you will), instead adds insult and injury.

When religion tends to advertise itself as a sanctuary from further trauma, but also contributes to making a bad situation even worse, we are forced to either look for answers back out in the world, or look where the real answers lie--within ourselves where they had been buried all along.

We each have been assigned the same GUIDE capable of leading us HOME; the STILL SMALL VOICE that TLW replaced with its own.

It is time we take back that WHISPER.

"It is time we take back that WHISPER."

YES!

Onion Wrote: Posted by: Onion ()
Date: September 26, 2018 03:04PM
-------------------------------------------------------
> 40 Years - I agree with some additions. The
> forensic audit needs to also look at the Trust
> managed by ApCo as well as offering and spending
> records for any account used to construct the
> amphitheatre, the Rayen party house, the horse
> barn and corral behind the Rayen house, the
> Christmas Truck, That Studio, the bars at various
> churches and any other project overseen or at the
> direction of Rick Holbrook.
>
> I would also add that there must be an admission
> of responsibility for having knowledge of Rick
> Holbrook's frequent and ongoing sexual abuse of
> minors and adults in the TLWF and for not doing
> anything about it.
>
> 40 Years - you were more eloquent than me so you
> may reword this.
>
> Maybe we should draft a document that all of us
> sign and send it. Just thinking about what it
> would do.

I believe this is a good idea, Onion. Have we followed through with this draft and I missed it. Should we consider doing so?
I think the community in Iowa deserves some reasonably accurate explanation as well, that will not interfere with any upcoming investigations for potential trials.
Any feed back?

FCSLC Wrote: December 04, 2019 02:38AM
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sitting on a rock surrounded by sagebrush in The
> Great Salt Lake Desert imparts cleaner energy than
> any laying on of hands. That’s been my experience
> since escaping TLWF circus.

I agree with changed - happy to hear form you, FSCLC.

"escaping TLWF circus" is an excellent description.

Reepicheep Wrote: December 06, 2019 05:07AM
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a link to a TedTalk by Dawn Smith. She was
> raised in a cult and talks about her experiences
> and how she left. One thing she said during the
> talk was: "The hardest day of freedom is better
> than the best day in a cult". That really
> resonated with me.
>
> Even though we may feel like we are starting over
> much later in life than we would like, it's still
> better than living in the bondage and torment of a
> cult for the rest of our lives. I would also like
> to encourage us all to speak to a professional
> therapist about our experiences. Get help.
>
> [103.48.190.25]


In my experience I agree with Reep.

Onion replied " We don't have to spend all of our time on what took place in the past. Instead, we will set goals on what you want to have in the new life you are creating. As you take steps into your new life, triggers from the past will come up, and we will deal with them as they come up. You may find fewer triggers coming up the further you go into the steps into your new life."

IMO Therapy is not rehashing the past only to learn as JRS had said over the pulpit decades ago, " ... therapy to learn you had a 'mother'." The congregation would laugh. In our case "already know that we had a "cult leader(s)" who impacted our lives negativity due to "manufactured ignorance". [stateofbelief.com]

In therapy you learn to form a new healthier plan for our behavior pattern that works for you vs your brain playing like a record platter needle stuck on the same words and tune due to a big scratch on the the vinyl.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 05:29PM by NancyB.

kBOY Wrote:December 04, 2019 06:05AM
-------------------------------------------------------
> P U D D
>
> Regarding the internet, it does cut both ways.
> Those with smarts to tailor their message (and
> squelch opposing voices) can present themselves as
> the new 'Wizard of Oz' and ensnare a whole new
> generation that believes everything on the
> internet is the 'gospel truth'.
>
> Most of us by now have at least heard of the 'dark
> web' which is able to perpetrate the most
> egregious behavior almost unabated.[/b] As a result,
> human-trafficking is at an all-time high--evidence
> of just how nefarious the medium can be, not for
> exposure, but for deception.

WARNING! May cause a panic. I'm sorry...I feel my next sentence has to be said.

I have held back with a thought that I have had previous experience with in another non related situation. I want to puke and shudder as I dare type my question which is not a fact - only something to consider questioning.

Before the building is bulldozed, will someone, please, please, please, survey for wrongly placed cameras????

There I typed it- wasn't hard to do as I had struggled with. The hardest part will be for those who read this who may have been unaware that private moments may have been violated and illegally shared. Again, I am not saying this as a fact- only wondering so that we may have some one investigate the air ducts or fixtures where cameras could have been hidden.

I feel bad for asking when the emotions have changed currently on this forum.

Northerngate made this relevant statement
Date: December 03, 2019 04:10PM

"I found something good today while reading during my lunch break:
Shame thrives on secret keeping, and when it comes to secrets, there’s some serious science behind the twelve-step program saying, “You’re only as sick as your secrets.”

I want to add something to the 'secrets and shame'thoughts in regards to "forgiveness and repentance". I think we all have experienced feelings towards the G-man attitude with his 'sorry excuses', and his supporters telling survivor to "forgive and forget, it's a new day."

The following statement was shared with me today that pretty much sums up an excellent reply for myself when someone tries to force us to shut up and 'move on".

"Repentance is more than forgiveness. It means a completely new way of thinking and living." Gary Hargraves/ Rick Holbrook have not moved to make any changes to show repentance or they would have turned themselves in; turned over records and confessed to all of their 'secrets' ( crimes) that left so many feeling unresolved 'shame'. IMO True repentance would mean for leadership of TLWF to stand before God, Judge and jury to repent, then face the consequences.

I believe that true 'repentance' in Biblical terms is the burden/ responsibility on the person who was responsible for the wrong doing. It is not sane to demand of a victim to 'forgive and forget' because the guilty demands you follow the bible teachings to "turn the other cheek". TWISTED.

Yes, we have to come to peace with what happened to us- but not on Hargraves' and Holbrooks' narcissistic terms.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 06:17PM by NancyB.

changedagain Wrote: December 05, 2019 02:18AM
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1,314,935 page views to date. I'm sure at least a
> few of the readers detest what is going on here,
> but I suppose if we're doing anything meaningful,
> there's bound to be those who are hostile toward
> it. Exposing what has been hidden for many years
> is a dangerous endeavor, so I'm appreciative of
> those who have courageously come forward recently
> to share their experiences, adding to the
> discussion.
> Have a pleasant day...or at least give it your
> best effort :)

Thanks Changed,
Dangerous indeed.
Reading your statement a few more times it hit me hard how seriously dangerous it was to have witnessed the crap I did personally, and to have spoken up only to have the the Scarlet Letter J for Jezebel hung around my neck decade ago.

When I "escaped" with my children in the only way possible was hard enough with antics of members of the 'body' harassing me on the street was bad enough. I had no idea in 1983 that other than the drug deals on church property and around the kB's in Anaheim nor the rumors of passing children around and the known "beating the hell out" of some strong willed children until "the spirits broke" were only the tip of the proverbial criminal iceberg.

I knew when I saw bits and pieces or bad things that went on TLWF and what was dictated to be done a certain way ( very poor judgement of 'kingdom' ideas) were so very wrong and against the law because I knew facts as a medical professional. I legally and morally could not turn a blind eye due to 'manufactured ignorance' among the "body".*

I recently learned the term "manufactured ignorance" ( no excuse *) that explains why so many people who could have said "NO The is wrong" were not aware of crap right under their noses. it seems to me 'mob rule' applied. And if leadership ordered all the Jezebels to be 'stoned to death", would it have been possible the hypnotized would have done so? ( Just asking IMO.)


We know that there has been all too many possible 'suicides' due to accidental overdoses etc. IMO I believe that instead of encouraging people to get properly licensed treatment, they were 'pushed over the edge'. That shut of too many people without killing any mocking birds with an stones.

What about the proverbial stone "He who is without sins let him cast the first stone." Or, the old adage " Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"? The Living Word was the stone that did so much harm...and who's fingerprints were on the stones that "stoned" so many in more than one sense of the word "stoned."

It was an extremely dangerous time even decades ago and I did not comprehend the depth until this morning. It is still dangerous to continue to document our honest experiences. However, documenting on-line in a searchable forum, as long as we tell the truth, forensically, and if any harm/ wrongful retaliation that could potentially comes to us can be traced back by computer experts. We have already survived Hell in TLWF.
We may be 2 sitting ducks with one stone aimed at us. I prefer to be open and honest with what I know and my opinions, based on the facts that I witnessed rather than to live in shame and fear. At least I am FREE!

Quote
Edmund Burke
*

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)"
"Edmund Burke, When Good Men Do Nothing, The Triumph Of Evil
www.padfield.com/1997/goodmen.html

Here is some interesting "biblical" food for thought on failing to act, even if we use the excuse of mass mind control and 'manufactured ignorance'. Take it or leave it.

Evil, sin and sinful men must be opposed. God commands those who are good, not just to avoid evil but actively oppose it. Christians are to not only to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but (also) reprove them" (Eph. 5:11). Those who do nothing about sin and evil, help the sin and evil to prevail."

[www.padfield.com]

Because 'good people' in the'body' did nothing to stop it - the Walk got more and more corrupt and dangerous damaging more lives than we know.

Here's to safe healing and the courage to speak up with the truth and accept the facts about TLWF.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 07:19PM by NancyB.

Northerngate in repsonse to your post on
Date: December 07, 2019 10:44PM and other posts, i wish I had a an answer for you that fixed everything - I don't, but, I'd like to share my thoughts, good, bad or ugly.

First off, I am also a writer. Doing research on narcissistic socio-paths to undue the damage of my first novel and the circumstances i accidentally found this forum. Did god send me? I don;t know, but, I certainly have gotten healing far deeper than i could have ever predicted.

I, too, wonder why my parents were the way they were and how their issues made me vulnerable to The Walk. ( I got in by default because my dad joined The mother church in Washington, Iowa in the 1950's.)

IMO I think that we Baby-boomers choices were directly as result of how how parents survived the Depression and WWII and all the influences. Because of our upbringings our parents and we ourselves may have followed any guru we were introduced to. If not JRS it may have been someone else who offered a promise to what we were searching for in order to help us heal form our parent's own wounds.

I can't help but wonder if you father had a Four Square, Aimee Semple MacPhearson influence and or Latter Rain influence in addition to what ever he went thru growing up himself.

Radio for our grand parents and parents was a viable distraction form hopelessness having literally had nothing in years before we were born.

Something my own father told me keep popping in my head for what it is worth. He grew up in rural Iowa. His grand parents were 2nd generation early Iowa settlers from Germany. His parents refused to teach he and his German, tho' the older family members spoke fluent German, their native language at home when they did not want the kids to know what they were talking about. Only English in public.

My dad told me how my great grand mother loved to listen to Hitler speak on the radio. My dad thought he sounded scary. But, from what i learned I think Hitler became my dear , see, intelligent, loving great grandmother's guru. WOW!

My great grand mother and grand father and her family were safe and well nourished on the farm so my dad did not experience the hardship like my mother's family in the city where she experienced significant trauma's that affected her ability to parent and function.

My parent's perspective as children of the Depression was quite different from each other, even tho' my father's family loved Hitler and heard Nazi speeches on the radio he did his best to be a good man.

My point is that we may never know why any of our parents had issues that left us vulnerable to cult leaders preying on potential followers. And yet other's don't fall for narcissists. Did god plan it that way? I doubt it. I think it may have more to do with the interpersonal skills we have acquired.

Your dad sounds like my mom - I can relate. I'm so sorry. In my situation I was taught to Jump and ask how high on the way up by my mother- or their would be hell to pay. well, that set me up to be totally obedient and compliant to narcissistic leader. I also had learned to to protect my siblings from the abuse. i carried that skill with me as I knew I had to leave the group when my claims were ignored.

Unfortunately, we all bought our own stuff in the Walk with us. So, we have a lot of baggage to sort thru' in order to decide what is helpful to bring peace and what has to be discarded.

I never know if I make any sense or not. Take what you like and leave the rest of my ramblings. there is no one perfect answer from any one person.
Hugs