Wow, Changed. It seems like JRS was quite absorbed with money. It makes me feel a bit dense that I never realized this during his lifetime. Well, Dan S. would know. All I can say is tacky, tacky, tacky! Also, this is a very ugly part of the deception. It has affected several generations.

"The idea that they have been played for years by unscrupulous, heartless leaders is too difficult to even fathom. After all, most of their lives have been given to this quest. Some were born into it.

Heartbreaking...

I'm not sure if he was compromised from the beginning, or it just came with time and opportunity. As far as Dan's comment...at first I thought he was just impressed with John's amateur magic trick, but now I'm not so sure.
He did let me know, too, that he wasn't on good terms with G & M at the time, offering no specifics. Perhaps he 'violated their atmosphere'...which isn't hard to do. As we know, Christ in the Flesh is easily triggered.

Quote

Posted by: changedagain
Date: November 19, 2019 11:56AM

Reep wrote:
Yes, he sure did, Cloudwatcher. Wondering if some of those people even believed in God. Was it all an act? A medicine show?

I recall having talking with Dan S. just prior to him being declared unfit to be a ministry and subsequently shunned. He was telling me how adept John was with magic tricks, specifically making money appear and disappear in his hands. No, I don't think he was being facetious...and yes, I did briefly consider making a snarky remark. Anyway, it obvious after all these years that at the core of this movement was/is a combination of greed and carefully-crafted deception. It's understandable that some people will never be willing to accept this. They cling to the belief that they have received a "living word" from true men of God, that it will one day be fulfilled, if only they remain unwavering in their faith and dedication. The issue, of course, is always the people-what they have not yet become. The idea that they have been played for years by unscrupulous, heartless leaders is too difficult to even fathom. After all, most of their lives have been given to this quest. Some were born into it.

This is important and bears repeating. People who are still hanging on might want to consider salvaging the rest of their lives from these sick leaders. It hurts to admit that you have been deceived, yes. But eventually it will get better, and you will reap the reward of being true to yourself. That is worth a lot in my book.

It is often stated that MARK TWAIN said, "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

Even though SNOPES.com will not confirm the TWAIN authorship, the statement still applies to far too many who would rather perpetuate a fantasy than to face reality. This is also a dynamic we see playing out on a larger political stage.

Fool me once--shame on you. Fool me twice--shame on me . . .

Agreed

Wow the thread on this page pretty much sums it up about The Church of the Living word or what ever the "Hargraves family" changed the corporate names to.

It has taken a small group of survivors all these years to fit enough pieces together to identify the crimes. Yes, crimes in the guise of "bring in the kingdom of God sacrificially" con.

Growing up in what was first a loving church with wonderful people in Iowa I felt safe - until the circus/ the "medicine show came to town to oooo's and awe with prayer and "holy secrets" revealed" to the good people with the "lights and glamour" of the show put on by predators.

I was child and I felt the over-sexualized undertones of the honored guests/ entertainers. Being an already silenced victim I had sort of adjusted my thinking that this was the way adult men behaved and I had to learn to be invisible in my own way in order to avoid the yucky/ creepy/ dirty feelings I had come to expect. If I did not "behave" with complete compliance I knew I would be beaten by my parents. Only God could have known what the leaders of the church could do to me. I lived in fear - pretending to live with happy days. ( Sick, right?) We did not talk about such things in those days. too bad. Most of us were not in a position to have any place else to go except to the church in order to survive.

But, now #Metoo movement open Pandora's box. And Shalom's honest open letter blew the lid off The Church of the Living Word. The ugly truth carries an initial sting of shock and disbelief at first. then the truth sets us free when we are willing to face the honest to God's truth not the lying :living Word"

At 8, 9, 10...16-18 I cognitively had no clue how to process the yucky, dirty uncomfortable feelings when being in the room with leadership guest preachers like, JrS, Arnold, Williams and more in the early years.

I heard rumors. But, who spoke up? a better question might be, 'who listened?" I don't know the answer. Nor do I know why 100's of more people could be speaking up, but aren't, yet? surely other people had picked up on the 'dirtiness'.

I even heard my mother complain about sexual advances on her- which she rejected with a vengeance.I saw what I saw - JRS was not the first man to hit on her that I saw- she was attractive up to a certain time before depression and lack of therapy took her over with shame and bitterness. But, no one came to her support. My own father did no have a clue of how to handle the advances on my mom- he simply wanted to know the secrets of the kingdom of god promised by JRS. ( My dad loved the traveling 'medicine shows. He was a sucker for them. He really desired and prayer to be a respected mega church leader. that would not happen because he loved God and people and didn't lie. And he was incredibly gullible and naive.)

JRS wanted my sisters and I in Blicks House- but gratefully my mom raised too much of a threat. She had left the church numerous times with bitterness no one understood- not even me at the time. She saw things that should not have been happening. "forgive and for get. Don't be bitter" was the message.

So, I bare my soul taking my families responsibility for the part we played in being duped in the foundation days. We fell for the medicine show. We participated. After the fact we "should have known" the Walk was a godless fraud that hurt 1,000's of good people.

The con was systematic where the little people were never given all the facts and distracted by the theatrical acting jobs with smoke and mirrors.

Please, remember in the Happy Days our parents and grandparent were still recovering mentally from the Depression and WWII. We Baby Boomers could only comprehend peace and safety unlike what our parents had known growing up. We trusted WJ so it was assumed we should truth JRS. We were wrong. I'm sorry.

Then newbies jumped on the band wagon and gave birth to children who only knew the ways of The Walk.- a totally different perspective than my perspective. Children had no choice but to be in the cult because of their parents' choices.- How do we ever explain this mess that has taken us so long to fit each of the pieces together that only few of us who have spoken out on this forum or Facebook?

How do we explain this mess to the law?

I think the quotes in this thread sum it up pretty well. We know that those who were still in TLWF when it fell are still trying to figure out "what the hell happened?" they have been told not to read stuff on-line nor talk to blow outs.
Why? Because we know bits and pieces of the lies and have fit the truth together. Mean while Gary Hargraves is on the his"higher calling" internationally thus leaving a path of wounded behind and survivors who only want healing for our family and friends with or more people victimized.

Most people in the early years had their eyes fixed on Godly things.- Any relationship with the real God the Father, Son, Holy spirit was personal doings
- never from the snake oil mixed with Kool-aid- NOT the vaudeville show actors selling the name of Jesus and the peddling the bible for wealth, glory...

The very best things about TLWF cult is not a 'thing'. We found deep friendship and love among the little people.I have no regrets over the loving bonds we all formed with good people who wore the same shoes.

Here's to recovering with the TRUTH!

-------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: November 18, 2019 09:50PM
>

Quote

> Posted by: Cloudwatcher
> Date: November 17, 2019 08:28PM
>
> JRS laid the foundation for Rapistolic Company of
> pedophiles and perverts.
>

>
>

Quote
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: November 18, 2019 09:50PM

Yes, he sure did, Cloudwatcher. Wondering if some
> of those people even believed in God. Was it all
> an act? A medicine show?

Quote
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: November 20, 2019 02:56AM

I recall having talking with Dan S. just prior to him being declared unfit to be a ministry and subsequently shunned. He was telling me how adept John was with magic tricks, specifically making money appear and disappear in his hands. No, I don't think he was being facetious...and yes, I did briefly consider making a snarky remark. Anyway, it obvious after all these years that at the core of this movement was/is a combination of greed and carefully-crafted deception. It's understandable that some people will never be willing to accept this. They cling to the belief that they have received a "living word" from true men of God, that it will one day be fulfilled, if only they remain unwavering in their faith and dedication. The issue, of course, is always the people-what they have not yet become. The idea that they have been played for years by unscrupulous, heartless leaders is too difficult to even fathom. After all, most of their lives have been given to this quest. Some were born into it.

Quote
Posted by: kBOY ()
Date: November 19, 2019 09:13AM

A very impressive con indeed, spanning almost 75 years, from the early '50s to just last year (and still continuing for some Kool-Aid addicts). Too many of us bought what was being sold, with many suffering serious 'side effects'.

Just one more of many examples of our CREATOR having to suffer the indignities of a lot of bad press and fake news, none of which had anything to do with the GOSPEL of LOVE.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2019 02:57PM by NancyB.

N A N C Y b


A very moving post that struck a deep chord, not only regarding 'religious anomalies', but just the culture of being a young girl/woman in that environment as a whole.

WALK/TLW aside, it exposes how a predatory, male-dominated society can adversely infect and affect every area of life, causing the entire other gender to exist within a scope ranging from anxiety to fear. (This is coming from a white-male who is deeply troubled by the actions of my brothers.)

Worse yet is when it comes as a wolf in sheep's clothing posing as one of their own who knows 'the way'. And after he gets his way, he is off to look for fresh innocents to slaughter.

Nancy
Thank you for sharing
You couldn’t be more spot on
I’ll never forget my dad saying if we didn’t end up in the living word cult we would have ended up in another one bc there were so many happening during the time of the 60’s 70’s. And now when you look around , lots of cults are ending. Including ours. Thank god. It all had a purpose. A reason ... and now it’s over ...
The puzzle pieces have been put together I agree. Now that is all makes sense.:: we can heal. It’s amazing
I was born into the cult. What a twisted version of fantasy and reality. I’ve been in therapy over the last 14 years rewiring my brain to see reality and fantasy the correct way. I had it backwards literally
I believe the cult may have started out as a vision ... but somewhere it became perverted and the vision was missed... missed by a long shot.
Lael

I’ve even forgiven Gary and others for being so fucked up. They truly thought they were doing “good” in my opinion . Understanding why they behaved in such “evil” frees me of hating them or anyone whom still love them . Hate is a self protection and I’ve learned I don’t have to protect myself anymore. They don’t Dictate my life anymore I can live my own life and make my own decisions without fear I’m finally not Afraid of the cult and cult leaders. I don’t have to go into a panic and heart beating outside my chest when I run into Gary in public. (Which I have recently ) I just see it for what it was. I’ve had lots of cries screams but now mostly laughing at how I even survived being raised in a circus Gary is no god. Neither was John or Marilyn. Just a simple man with human issues too

C H A c h a

W O W. We are very HAPPY to hear of the progress you have made processing whatever PTSD you suffered at the 'hands' of those you trusted. Your saga is just one of many such tales of violation and disappointment.

Not going into a panic at the sight of one who may be responsible directly or indirectly for harm done is a sign that whatever trauma-processing technique you have employed is indeed working.

The end-game is of course LOVE, and once that is reached, we (LOVE) will be able to walk around like we own the place--which LOVE actually does.

'Keep on--keepin' on' removing everything that obstructs your LIGHT and your LOVE.