Onion Wrote:Posted by: Onion ()
Date: November 11, 2019 06:41AM
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> Just in the past weeks, I have learned some things
> that may be of interest or a warning of things to
> come.
>
> As many already know, D. Bruce Larson and Gary
> Hargrave are currently in Israel conducting a tour
> with people from CLW and other TLWF churches. I
> heard that groups of people were told by Gary
> (and/or Bruce) that Gary Hargrave left TLWF
> behind as he begins to ascend to his higher
> calling of a worldwide ministry, taking over in
> Israel where Shlomo left off when he died a year
> ago.
>
> Similarities to the moves taken as John Stevens
> lay dying, Gary and Bruce went to Shlomo's bedside
> as he lay dying and in pain, and got Bruce placed
> on the Board in Jerusalem. I predict that Gary
> Hargrave will concoct and spread a story that
> before he died, Shlomo asked Gary to take over as
> he did with John. It was a lie in 1983. There
> are many witnesses to Shlomo's bedside meeting.
> It's unfortunate that so many witnesses to John
> Stevens' bedside have been ostracized, lied about,
> and kicked out of the church.
>
> Some people still hold Gary as an infallible
> source of God's word. That is staggering to me.
> Many ministries in various churches formerly part
> of TLWF were accused of knowledge of abuse and
> financial wrongdoing because of their association
> with leadership. As someone who attended many of
> those meetings either as a tape editor, legal
> assistant, or lawyer, I can assure you any
> meetings held post-1983 were dry and dull and
> NEVER addressed abuses or scandal of any kind.
> G&M ALWAYS kept that type of information close to
> their chests.
>
> So the question to me is if people are mad at
> former leaders who they THINK might have known
> something, why is Gary Hargrave given a pass?
> CLEARLY, HE KNEW EVERYTHING and actively hid the
> information and actively supported and advocated
> for the ministries guilty of abuses.


Onion, I believe you are saying that history may be repeating. Disturbing!

What a lousy position t" who most likely only knew what G & M wanted them to know. "Even the very elect will be deceived." Onion, you were put in a horrible position. Thank you for telling what you know.

We assume that as sheep our job was to graze and that the Shepard would protect us from the wolves. But the head shepherds were the wolves.

I hope that the people in Israel read this forum and put 2 + 2 together.

changedagain Wrote: Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: November 03, 2019 07:26AM
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>
> I came across a rumor today that Rick claimed he
> was molested as a boy. I suppose it could be true,
> or it could be yet another fabrication to garner
> sympathy from those he has abused. From all the
> accounts I've read here & elsewhere by people who
> knew him, he doesn't have much of a history of
> being forthright.


It is very possible.I don't know. I was not there.
Being a victim of sexual abuse himself is not a valid excuse for his mother and step father to have gotten him proper counseling especially since "god was leading them". Rick as an adult can not be excused for his behavior.

With that said, I did not know Rick except in passing. I do vividly remember some incidents where a very young Rick was around the teen boys who were not acting appropriate in my mind. ( Always haunted me.) Some of those teen youth, it turns outs, were into some raunchy stuff I was told by a reliable source/ victim decades ago. At the time the acts were beyond my comprehension. At the time Marilyn and JRS were present in the building, but , did nothing to "coral" the older boys. I was a teenage girl at the time- the poor behavior was beyond my understanding that would not have been aloud in my home church.

Perhaps we would want to explore the CA youth group ( leaders as well) of the late '60's. Some were and are very good people. There were others who were along for the ride because "mom and dad" were members of the early cult.

I think this could be very revealing about "leadership"'s ability to lead the flock of sheep by repeating "God's directives." I believe "leadership" did not pay attention nor did they really care as long as they were rising to power.

Some things were very very wrong when Rick was young - I was only in CA to see glimpses not knowing that the walk were evolve to this tangled web of corruption. ( I knew that this little boy was Marilyn's, the secretary's so whom I was not positively impressed with. ( I confess I was critical.)

The crappy thing for me personally was the fact that I feared JRS revealing what a "bad girl" I was because I had been molested. I thought JRS could see right me- I lived in fear - that gave JRS power and control over me. Why could JRS and M not see what may or may not have been happening to their son/ future step son, or what he was doing? so much for Divine revelation!

I do believe that JRS had studied enough to be able to guess at body language so he could manipulate. there fore I would think that JRS and then M would have been astute enough to have known something was going on with some one doing something to Rick. I can't confirm nor deny that Rick was molested or not - I simply think that we may want to try to pool more tid bits on the late '60's.

Rick, as an adult is responsible for his own behavior- no excuses.

Sexual issues were certainly out of control covered up among the adults who were supposed to be protecting the children. JRS and M sure did not know as much as what they lead us all to believe at any given time. They sure were covering up and doing other things besides parenting their own children. Plenty of people turned their heads and winked back then. That "did nothing" attitudes grew into a lot of monsters that really were under the bed rather than the ones given biblical names and were prayed for to die.

I hope my wonderings makes some kind of sense and open up a can of truth worms.

Imapurple Wrote:Posted by: Imapurple ()
Date: November 03, 2019 10:06AM
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> Even if that’s true and I don’t think it is. What
> would that have anything to do with decades of
> abuse and overwhelming control over countless
> people and their families? Truth is , I was
> molested when I was seven but I didn’t go on spree
> of abuse and manipulation for 35 years. Nobody
> had it as good as Rick did from a very early age.
> He was given the keys to the kingdom just out of
> high school and off It went. A license to kill if
> you will. And in his little world of the Walk,
> nobody could defeat him because he had the backing
> from the top. He knows all the words to say to get
> those around him to sympathize. He turned into a
> very dangerous person over the years. So I don’t
> give a shit if some pervert like Wayne Barton of
> some other idiot from back in the day touched his
> little wee wee its no excuse! None!

BINGO! this is the time period where I had referred to in my last comment. many more victims I am sure than what we have a clue.

I think we need to explore and collect notes on this name mentioned.I know the history on Wayne. In my opinion Wayne was along for the ride. A child of an actress who was friends of the great ladies of the silver screen. Wayne was a child prodigy on the organ. He traveled doing concerts as that special prodigy. He went to med school - had some wild stories- but dropped out.

My guess was that no body wanted him now that Wayne grew up creepy. Tho' Martha's brother's was a credible organist the walk needed a very good organist as well to lead credibility ( my words and my thinking). Wayne was never there to serve the Lord- he was arrogant and needed attention.

I know that Wayne had taken in some hippie. guys. He told the story that he gave the guys money to buy groceries/ "But the staples" he said, " And what ever else you want." So the guys came home with staples and stapler and beer.

I have no idea what Wayne did other than he got some one's ex husband involved in raunchy stuff. At the time I had to look up waht that stuff was in the encyclopedia and hope the librarian did not see what I read.

for an Iowa girl, I knew Wayne pretty well. not my choice- gag me with a spoon for my "critical spirit". But my mother was fascinated by him.

I was assigned to stay at Wayne Barton's place by Anaheim hospitality when I came down for a "feast" about 1973 from Campbell. I was brand new to "the walk" and came down with a group from Campbell, CA for the feast (Passover?). I was in the Army, about 21 years old. I got into a bed (couch in his living room) he let me stay in to go to sleep and he jumped in bed (which shocked me) and grabbed my privates. My basic training kicked in, I put up my fists, and I think he left and went to his bedroom. I still have it blanked out ... can't remember a thing more. I don't know what really happened. I have thought about getting hypnotized by a therapist to see if I could remember what happened. I think I posted a little about this incident about 9 months ago.

I'm male, which I guess you figured out. So this was a homosexual attack. Sorry there have been so many additional attacks in this category also as well as so many other sexual categories.

Typer, I am so sorry. I should have given a trigger warning at the very least.

I am certain that you are not the only one and I know that does not make it any better, I'm sorry. I applaud you, typer for coming forward. I believe it will help oter to heal and eventually legal the cases.

Second hand I heard rumors that felt "icky". Most of us at age 21 were still so very naive, as we should have been. Not many in the medical field were trained to listen, I know.

In That area in CA I can only image how law enforcement listened at that time in history.

Typer, you wrote."Sorry there have been so many additional attacks in this category also as well as so many other sexual categories." I know your statement is correct and maybe worse than we can imagine. I understand the loneliness, fear and shame that goes along with a sexual assault.

In the walk we were supposed to be protected by the shepherds, but, it was farce. so many were hurt. it was pattern of behavior in the playground founded by JRS. The allegations against Rick etc, I really believe, had been long established patterns of behavior that were accepted by "leadership".

I know I opened old wounds for you and how many others?Many will ask, "Why open old wounds? Most of these people are dead." I care about us all healing from crap that was never our fault. Wayne, in my opinion, was an obvious problem to me - and I was still out right uniformed on the sexual abuse subject in the '70's.
I've spent a life time educating my self in order to heal. I know that we must talk about this awful subject and educate ourselves- in doing so we send the message that covering up sexual assaults will not be tolerated. too bad this attitude has only in the last few years been embraced as valuable. We can not undo painful pasts but perhaps we can help be an important part of changing the future for others. ( this message is for those who don't want to know about the sexual abuse- still all too many people with that mind set, unfortunately.

It it my belief ( my opinionated guess based on some facts) that the walk was used as a sexual playground for numerous perverts, pedophiles, rapists and it was known to "leadership" who did nothing but manipulate victims to keep quite. Those who were in the walk to worship God could not comprehend that people who were saying all the right Biblical things were liars and deceivers.

Rant over.
Again, I'm sorry, typer that I hit to close to home. You are brave to speak out.

I think many will find this article EXPANDING THE SCOPE OF CHURCH LIABILITY FOR SEXUAL ABUSE CLAIMS
Expanding the Scope of Church Liability for Sexual Abuse Claims relevant and interesting.

In the state of Virginia a court may be finding churches" who knew but did nothing" liable for abuse. this could open new doors for us as survivors of some of the abuses in the walk.

Quote "

Quote
Heather Stitson

Jury selection just concluded in a West Virginia case that may prove monumental in expanding the scope of liability assigned to churches for sexual abuse of minors. What makes this case unique is that while we are familiar with the many lawsuits against the Catholic church for sexual abuse by priests.

The abuser...was not a church leader but was another member... a minor himself, and the abuse took place off church premises.

Nine minors and their parents have joined together to sue the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints...
... claiming negligence, negligent supervision, fraud, conspiracy, civil assault, failure to report as required under the state’s mandatory reporting laws, and intentional infliction of emotion distress."

[wfulawpolicyjournal.com]

Wayne Barton was an early omen of what was to come in The Walk/TLWF. He had something JRS needed (being a gifted church organist) and therefore was tolerated and his molestation of church members was covered up. There were so many others; many were "apostolic ministries". Harold Williams (apostle to Brazil), Bill Arnold (JRS' brother-in-law), and Mel Bailey were some I heard about. And as we have learned on this forum and elsewhere, JRS himself was an abuser. Those all happened long ago, but they obviously set a pattern that Rick and others repeated over and over. Something is deeply and desperately wrong when there are those in a church who are "too big to fail". Women, children and young people are scapegoated and trashed for the purpose of "not bringing persecution upon" G&M and the organization. Leaders were not held accountable to the same standards as sheep were. It says a lot about the Apostolic Fathering Ministries that they knew and orchestrated the cover-ups. They were the wolves, not the shepherds.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2019 11:46PM by Reepicheep.

Exactly, Reep.

Reepicheep Wrote: Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: November 13, 2019 11:24PM
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> Wayne Barton was an early omen of what was to come
> in The Walk/TLWF. He had something JRS needed
> (being a gifted church organist) and therefore was
> tolerated and his molestation of church members
> was covered up. There were so many others; many
> were "apostolic ministries". Harold Williams
> (apostle to Brazil), Bill Arnold (JRS'
> brother-in-law), and Mel Bailey were some I heard
> about. And as we have learned on this forum and
> elsewhere, JRS himself was an abuser. Those all
> happened long ago, but they obviously set a
> pattern that Rick and others repeated over and
> over. Something is deeply and desperately wrong
> when there are those in a church who are "too big
> to fail". Women, children and young people are
> scapegoated and trashed for the purpose of "not
> bringing persecution upon" G&M and the
> organization. Leaders were not held accountable to
> the same standards as sheep were. It says a lot
> about the Apostolic Fathering Ministries that they
> knew and orchestrated the cover-ups. They were the
> wolves, not the shepherds.

Reep, you summed it up very well.
In those days many of us on this forum were young or only teenagers. We were not expected in normal society to know about this crap and how to protect ourselves, yet, we saw and heard things that cognitively we could not understand at the time.

These shepherds we were told to trust and be obedient without question is just sickening. Yes, Rick grew up in a lousy environment and not shepherd stopped it. I have to wonder who all taught Rick the "tricks of trade"? Very sad state of affairs that only tips the iceberg of the whys and hows of the cover ups.

So much for "revelation" from the "men of God." and to think the very same shepherds gave directions for kingdom schools and designated relationships.

Quote
The Myth of Abuse
The Myth Of The Abused Becoming Abusers | Defend Innocence
defendinnocence.org/myth-abused-becoming-abusers
If your child is sexually abused it does NOT mean that they will grow up to perpetuate that abuse on others, especially if your child is given the help and care that they need after the abuse is discovered. It harms survivors of childhood sexual abuse to have this stigma attached to them.

I encourage everyone who ever had time in the walk to please go seek professional counseling. There are so many lies to sort out that have and will continue to affect your life and relationships - your ability to maybe even get out of bed sometimes.

There are so many courageous people who have spoken up about so many wrong doings that have helped the rest of us fill in the blanks as we work towards healing and resolution... I do not suggest that everyone has to blurt out the harm done to them on this forum. Anyone can google and end up reading everything written here. ( pros and cons)

I honestly do not have a perfect solution to how we as individuals will heal. learning about patterns of behavior of manipulators and abusers and how their words and actions affect us is very enlightening. I wish I did know a perfect solution - but alas didn't we fall for one person's "I only know the truth"?

Do what is right for you.