LiamThomasusa wrote:
I still am standing strong for those that have told their stories and for those yet to break free to tell theirs.... for it is the stories that shall diminish this cult from gaining any credibility.

Yes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2019 06:21AM by changedagain.

Just in the past weeks, I have learned some things that may be of interest or a warning of things to come.

As many already know, D. Bruce Larson and Gary Hargrave are currently in Israel conducting a tour with people from CLW and other TLWF churches. I heard that groups of people were told by Gary (and/or Bruce) that Gary Hargrave left TLWF behind as he begins to ascend to his higher calling of a worldwide ministry, taking over in Israel where Shlomo left off when he died a year ago.

Similarities to the moves taken as John Stevens lay dying, Gary and Bruce went to Shlomo's bedside as he lay dying and in pain, and got Bruce placed on the Board in Jerusalem. I predict that Gary Hargrave will concoct and spread a story that before he died, Shlomo asked Gary to take over as he did with John. It was a lie in 1983. There are many witnesses to Shlomo's bedside meeting. It's unfortunate that so many witnesses to John Stevens' bedside have been ostracized, lied about, and kicked out of the church.

Some people still hold Gary as an infallible source of God's word. That is staggering to me. Many ministries in various churches formerly part of TLWF were accused of knowledge of abuse and financial wrongdoing because of their association with leadership. As someone who attended many of those meetings either as a tape editor, legal assistant, or lawyer, I can assure you any meetings held post-1983 were dry and dull and NEVER addressed abuses or scandal of any kind. G&M ALWAYS kept that type of information close to their chests.

So the question to me is if people are mad at former leaders who they THINK might have known something, why is Gary Hargrave given a pass? CLEARLY, HE KNEW EVERYTHING and actively hid the information and actively supported and advocated for the ministries guilty of abuses.

O N I O N

'Thanks' for the update, but none of this is surprising. Can a leopard change it's spots . . . ?

The makeup of the G-man (and that of Larson as well) has always prioritized position and wealth at the expense of any real shepherding. What more evidence do we need?

Shortly after the Tramp moved on, I predicted a Brazilian bride as well as a possible Brazilian relocation, even before Shalom-ashima. Now that the sh*t has hit the fan, and there is equally bad news coming out of Monte Zion, an Israeli relocation would seem like the next best option to distance himself from a damaged resume and possibly upgrade his street cred by tying himself to the Jerusalem Center and then on to his beloved Vatican.

Maybe he thinks establishing new roots abroad will allow him to escape the consequences of his actions here, along with keeping most of the $$$ that Larson probably helped him squirrel away since the '80's or before. Those guys are joined at the hip.

Anyone who is still under their spell is going to require an even more disturbing rude awakening before they are freed from it.

Caveat emptor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2019 07:24AM by kBOY.

kBoy wrote,
Maybe he thinks establishing new roots abroad will allow him to escape the consequences of his actions here, along with keeping most of the $$$ that Larson probably helped him squirrel away since the '80's or before. Those guys are joined at the hip.

The tight bond of ruthless ambition.

Onion wrote,
As many already know, D. Bruce Larson and Gary Hargrave are currently in Israel conducting a tour with people from CLW and other TLWF churches. I heard that groups of people were told by Gary (and/or Bruce) that Gary Hargrave left TLWF behind as he begins to ascend to his higher calling of a worldwide ministry, taking over in Israel where Shlomo left off when he died a year ago.

He always seems to be in pursuit of a higher calling. I'm hoping once he ascends to the position of Apostle to the Universe, that will be enough. But if history is any indication, I don't think it will be :)

APOSTLE to the UNIVERSE

Anyone who chose to monitor the direction of 'the word' over the years simply out of curiosity--which I did--found it to be the 'same old--same old', and completely devoid of any significant revelatory content.

The only sustaining factor over the years to keep the sheep from running off to greener pastures was maintaining the Wizard of Oz mystique, which was done right up until the moment that Shalom pulled the curtain down.

The only way for the G-MAN to gain gravitas and instant street-cred overseas will be to associate himself with the Jerusalem Center, because he is not preaching anything on his own that will turn this world upside down.

Quote

Posted by: Onion
Date: November 10, 2019 03:41PM

Just in the past weeks, I have learned some things that may be of interest or a warning of things to come.

As many already know, D. Bruce Larson and Gary Hargrave are currently in Israel conducting a tour with people from CLW and other TLWF churches. I heard that groups of people were told by Gary (and/or Bruce) that Gary Hargrave left TLWF behind as he begins to ascend to his higher calling of a worldwide ministry, taking over in Israel where Shlomo left off when he died a year ago.

Similarities to the moves taken as John Stevens lay dying, Gary and Bruce went to Shlomo's bedside as he lay dying and in pain, and got Bruce placed on the Board in Jerusalem. I predict that Gary Hargrave will concoct and spread a story that before he died, Shlomo asked Gary to take over as he did with John. It was a lie in 1983. There are many witnesses to Shlomo's bedside meeting. It's unfortunate that so many witnesses to John Stevens' bedside have been ostracized, lied about, and kicked out of the church.

Some people still hold Gary as an infallible source of God's word. That is staggering to me. Many ministries in various churches formerly part of TLWF were accused of knowledge of abuse and financial wrongdoing because of their association with leadership. As someone who attended many of those meetings either as a tape editor, legal assistant, or lawyer, I can assure you any meetings held post-1983 were dry and dull and NEVER addressed abuses or scandal of any kind. G&M ALWAYS kept that type of information close to their chests.

So the question to me is if people are mad at former leaders who they THINK might have known something, why is Gary Hargrave given a pass? CLEARLY, HE KNEW EVERYTHING and actively hid the information and actively supported and advocated for the ministries guilty of abuses.

It's unbelievable to me that people are still being tricked by the main and ONLY remaining "foundational" leader of this mess. And he doesn't even want it. This is how he takes responsibility? By dropping out of sight and moving on to his "world-wide" ministry? I bet he's still benefitting financially from all the little people who remain loyal to him.

Reepicheep Wrote:Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: November 01, 2019 11:15PM
-------------------------------------------------------
> Imapurple and Onion,
> Thank you both for shedding light into events that
> most of us knew nothing about. These are sad and
> upsetting revelations by those who were close to
> G&M back in the days leading up to and following
> June 4, 1983. Facts that were known by a few were
> never revealed to the general congregation. I
> remember being shocked by Rich's announcement on a
> Sunday night in South Gate sometime in the spring
> of 1984 that GH and MS would be getting married.
> He began his announcement with something like,
> "I'm tired of keeping this secret..." To most of
> us, that was shocking enough. This was not
> anywhere close to what was being represented to
> the congregations. My memory says that we were
> still being told that "we killed JRS with our
> unbelief and failure to break through" and now we
> must “pray for his return”. How did that fit with
> this surprise announcement? It was confusing, to
> say the least. I can only surmise, almost forty
> years later, that these people were always evil
> and conniving. There was really ever only one
> “girl" who should have “turned it off". Also,
> there was one man who callously left his wife and
> baby in order to become a rich and powerful
> leader. Thankfully, this atrocity of a con is
> almost over. Does anyone reading still believe
> that these illustrious leaders really believed in
> an afterlife? Because it's not looking
> particularly good for them.


I'm breaking my silence with a mess of emotions re the fall of the frauds, finally.
Way back when I "escaped" with my kids it was a very lonely place to be knowing of all too many bits and pieces of the "crimes" that no one wanted to get involved, it seemed. That time in my life was very scary.

Gratefully, we are no longer alone with so many people willing to add their bits and pieces of this horrible puzzle - not a pretty picture, now that the truth is painted.

Reep, I really don't think the leaders believe in anything except their system to take advantage of trusting people and the sick delusion of their entitlement.

I am grateful for so many people, Reeicheap, Onion, Imapaurple, Changed, Onion, Shalome and all of you who have contributed so much.

The auction advertisement for Shiloh on the 23rd of November is bringing my personal story and dream of a church camp (that was all a con) is now full circle. I have great sadness and relief. I want to barf.

[I wonder what it felt like to witness the The Berlin Wall coming down.There must have been a mix of emotions over the freedom and the changes that would be coming... I think about the Iraqi war in early 2000.]

I wonder where G and cronies are hiding out. My mind flashes on when my daughter was in the army was stationed in Iraq and Saddam Hussaem was in hiding under ground.

When Saddam was found he looked like such a broken man all dirty and lice ridden. He had taken such power and control over the people he was supposed to care for as leader. I had moments when watching him on TV, after his capture, when I felt empathy for him a human being- his rein of terror was over- his life was over and he knew it. Saddam was vulnerable. ( G, the former dictator of TLWF should be feeling vulnerable... who knows? I don't have an ounce of empathy knowing that so many good people have war wounds.)

During the Iraqi War with Saddam captured, I also knew that I was still very afraid for my child, a solider, who was in a war that she did not want to in. I feel much the same way about the exposing of TLWF. There will be a lot of emotional adjustments to make for those who have been in our personal conflict with TLWF. Our children were fighting a "war" they knew nothing about - they were simply "born into the walk" and plunked into the middle of "war" to "take a kingdom" that was an illusion - to profit the "Hargrave Family Ministries"

With that said, "our war" to expose the truth is not over, yet. But, we are strong because so many have spoken the truth - the truth has set us free- and those truths has come together to reveal a very ugly picture. The wounded have PTSD as we in our time try to assimilate into the real world.

Our stories are true. G and Hench men can do nothing to hurt us for being truthful. We have nothing to cover up. If they tried to harm us, all fingers are pointing to "the chosen" few. I imagine that those who have supported and covered G are feeling afraid of being captured as well.

Thanks to every one who has shared the pieces of the puzzle. I understand how difficult it has been in so many ways.I hope we can see that the peace we hoped for is coming with the fall of a few bad people.

Please keep the bits and pieces coming - it will end up making sense so we can all have resolution.

NancyB

Gary has always been a master at laying the blame for wrongdoing within the churches on those beneath him in the authority structure, and refusing personal accountability. If he has a 'gift,' that is it. It's certainly not the "word" he brings, which is devoid of life and strips people of their self-worth--creating a culture of dependency, not maturity. It's sad, but not surprising, that he continues to maintain a loyal following who not only consider him a man of god, but are willing to devote the rest of their lives supporting his self-appointed "ministry." Facts be damned.
To those who have fought for their freedom, I salute you.

Reepicheep Wrote: Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: November 02, 2019 09:46PM
-------------------------------------------------------
> And yet again I wonder aloud, "Did/do these people
> even believe in God? Or only in themselves and
> their right to riches and power?"
>
> Also, what the hell was Marilyn afraid of? Not
> letting her husband be taken to the hospital and
> properly cared for while he's dying of cancer?
> Making someone who is grieving sit through and
> observe the enbalming process? Keeping his body at
> home for days so that people could say goodbye?
> Putting beloved mementos from various people in
> weird places in the casket? I'll just say it. It
> sounds like a deranged mind.
>
> 8-O
> [shocked face]

Breaking silence again with my opinion.To NOT jump in with your question Reep is too much to stay underground. I really never thought that many who rode the band wagon believed in God.

Marilyn was a ruthless opportunist who never outgrew the desire to be "homecoming queen" at all costs. in my opinion. I formed that opinion the first time I met M mid '60's. I was only a naive Iowa teen. I saw her interaction with JRS during non service time; disturbing to me a good Christian girl. My opinion is not of proof of anything. but, I did not think at the time that M was Godly woman serving the church. I did not understand why she was such a bossy flirt when adult women I knew at CT would have never acted that way. it was not "Christian".

In mid '70's I kept my opinion to my self and my mouth shut when we went to Shiloh. My thought was, "who invited all theses tacky people?" It was clear to me that so many people were at Shiloh had no idea of what the Bible said nor did they have a desire to serve the Lord. Too many were simply there for a free ride...leadership did not care as long as they had a mass work crew and numbers of people reacting to the planted "crisis actors". My opinion and my harsh words.

Please don't be offended by my judgmental statements. My opinion is not a once-size fits all blanket statement. I hope my opinion is received as a very important piece of the ugly truth. The camp was divided: those who sought God earnestly; those who were there just because: and those who would have followed any guru to play the game.

I'm a Washington girl. The families I grew up with were loving, kind good Christian folks that many outsiders criticized for being "legalistic" ( I think that word was all too often a quote with out really knowing what it meant.) My family and long time friends and connections had a very different life style and reason for being connected with Shiloh than many that showed up. We Christians generally ( No matter the church)naively assume that any one who says, "amen or Hallelujah, bless you Bro" is of the same heart." Washington people were fed a different set of lies because they are "Christian" and knew the Bible.

In the early 80's before I "escaped" I knew JRS was sick and an alcoholic. I asked questions of the bro - not favorable to do so.
In my opinion I feel it was negligent of Marilyn to not encourage JRS to have "medical care". The state of CA would have been all over it. I don't think JRS should of had to suffer and die at his age IF he had proper care. I was a medical professional so I think this way. I was not there at Kling house. I think G & M took advantage of JRS illness. Seems to dirty to me. Again I was not there. I know many people want to die at home in peace. I just feel JRS may have needlessly suffered when he could of had legitimate treatment in a timely manner.