What’s Behind the Blowback You’ll Get When You Engage Cult Members

[matthewremski.com]

Here's my favorite type of post from kBoy...his great analyses of current "words" AKA sermons. Coincidentally, it's a sermon by GH talking about JRS' "trip to the future". Enjoy...

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kBOY ()
Date: November 13, 2016 07:33PM

HEADBANGER NEWS: Stealing Candy From a Baby

"Rekindle Your Childlike Faith"
November 13, 2016

[www.garyandmarilynhargrave.com]


"In the first service John Stevens attended after the Lord gave him a vision of the Kingdom, he spoke of childlike faith." (The setup for being duped.)

"The vision (i.e. hallucination) projected John into the future and in it God showed what He was going to do and what was going to happen to us as a people." (He must have left out all the devastation parts.)

"God gave the vision to John (or so it is claimed) and it has become our vision and experience." (One will have to speak for oneself.)

"With childlike faith we reach up and say, 'Father, reveal Yourself, bathe me in Your presence, and give me a revelation of Your love.'” (That would be a first for TLW leadership.)

Quote

Powerful Article on Forms of Bondage in Deceitful Groups
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 24, 2019 08:37AM

What’s Behind the Blowback You’ll Get When You Engage Cult Members

[matthewremski.com]

Corboy,

Great to see you! I skimmed the article and will read carefully later. Awesome!

Posts by GSchaeff and Larry Bobo from October 2018:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: GSchaeff
Date: October 28, 2018 08:04PM

Greetings everyone,

I'm sharing some documents I've accumulated recently.

1) Here is Woodrow Nichol's book on TLW. In it, Nichols documents many travesties which serve as warning signs for some of the terrible things we've unfortunately all become aware of recently. Nichols raises many warning signs about JRS' authoritarian personality, as well as his insistence on total submission and unquestioning loyalty from his followers. Nichols also documents allegations of JRS abusing the trust and devotion his congregation placed in him by using his position as pastor to pursue and commit affairs, beginning as early as 1967. That particular incident split the Valley church when love letters were found corroborating claims that he'd been using his influence as pastor to seduce a deacon's wife.
[drive.google.com]

2) This is an article in the Honolulu Advertiser dated Sunday, June 27th, 1999, a time that Gary was likely giving a Summer Camp sermon at Shiloh, Iowa. In the article, Gary is showing off his "Hidden Island Sanctuary," a luxurious property he and Marilyn owned on Oahu. This property is located within a mile of both the ocean and Diamond Head State Park. In the article, Gary claims that most of the renovations were done almost exclusively with church labor. It appears that in either June of 2000 or April 2005, Gary sold this property at a considerable gain. If it was sold in 2005, the sale price was $3.5M. Also in April 2005, Gary purchased his current property, located within a half mile of another beach. Gary's current property appears to have also been renovated and has since seen a large increase in value as well, from approx. $1.75 million in 2005 to approx. $3.25M today. My sources all come from public data available online, primarily the City & County of Honolulu and a local Oahu real estate page, oahure.com. Therefore, these figures could be inaccurate, but are reasonable estimations. I share them because this is how things appear based on public data. At the very least, this shows an example of the luxury Gary and Marilyn have enjoyed for the past few decades. Unfortunately, if accurate, it could also serve as an example of Gary using church labor to greatly amplify his personal wealth.
[drive.google.com]

3. An interview given to the Iowa City Press Citizen detailing "death prayers" being directed by leadership toward Martha Stevens at Shiloh. These prayers have been vehemently denied by leadership as having occurred, although at times it is admitted that they were prevalent, but "in no way sanctioned by JRS or senior leaders."
[drive.google.com]

4. A Des Moines Register article detailing a burglary case involving Joe Knott, a member of TLW, who burned down the house of a critic of John Robert Stevens. In the court case, Knott claimed that the local church at Shiloh incited him to commit the burglary and arson.
[drive.google.com]

These articles do not prove beyond a reasonable doubt any wrong doing. That said, they should raise questions. Those questions should be asked, and they should not be discouraged. These events do not need to be believed, but we should all be aware that they're possibilities. I repeat, they should not be discouraged. At this point in TLWF's history, ex-members probably outnumber current members by thousands. There are countless testimonies of ex-members explaining how TLWF harshly discourages asking questions that are critical of its history or the decisions of its leaders. My point is not to spread gossip. My point is that this church has discouraged any criticism whatsoever with phrases like "that's just gossip," "check your spirit," or "so and so is just bitter." Ask questions. Demand answers. There is nothing shameful about seeking the truth.

GS


Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: larry bobo ()
Date: October 29, 2018 07:11AM

I know that forgiveness provides a path to freedom for those who have been offended. Trust, on the other hand, is something that is earned. Decades of good behavior can be offset by one betrayal. However, decades of betrayal reveal a deep character flaw that should not be ignored. The corporation of TLWF could be closed down, ending public outcry over violations, since it no longer exists – as well as accountability of those involved. Moving the same leaders to a new corporation does not solve the problem - even if it may end bad press from the past. Business corporations do it all the time to limit the liability of their Board of Directors. Same people, new name, and the same problems. No matter where you go, there you are – even if you declare it’s a new day and any past problems were the other guys fault.

I am suspect of the new open door for complaints, since for many years it was the method of fishing for who to remove from the fellowship. If you disagree, you’re gone. It may also be a way of exposing legitimate legal concerns so that legal defense strategies can be put in place. There is not the history that would show a legitimate concern for the people, instead of personal gain. For Gary to suggest that it is he who started an investigation is laughable. He just finally got exposed a little deeper. One can only hope that as people bare their hearts, there will at least be some shepherds that will show compassion, instead of following the party line no matter who it hurts.

Sexual abuse is always a wake-up call to most people. It certainly has generated a lively recent discussion – perhaps because of the Me Too movement. Spiritual abuse, on the other hand, can be equally damaging. I experienced both in TLWF, and for me, the spiritual abuse was much more traumatic and difficult to unravel. Most people, who were old enough to make the choice (first, second, and third generations), became a part of TLWF seeking a deeper walk with God. Most left questioning their Christianity altogether. That is not good fruit. I’m encouraged by the overwhelming response to Shalom’s letters by mostly her peers. It gives me hope for the future.

More on JRS' "vision into the future" by larry bobo.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: larry bobo ()
Date: November 26, 2016 08:26PM

It seems John’s vision into the future was conveyed differently in various local churches of TLWF. It was much like Christmas – in some locations you were going to burn in hell if you had a Christmas tree or celebrated with family and friends, and in other locations you had a Christmas parade and sang Christmas carols to the neighbors. (Multiple affairs, Christmas festivities – it’s good to be the favorite son and not be subject to the rules made to control the "little people".) If you happen to be lucky enough to have a pastor with a little common sense that allowed you to go to college (this was before Shiloh University) perhaps you could make a decent living. In other areas it was frowned upon because the kingdom was dawning in 1979 and a college education would be unnecessary. Instead, you got the privilege of working for kingdom businesses for often less than minimum wage. I would venture to say many more young people went to college after 1979 – even though the kingdom had dawned in the "spirit realm" - or La-La Land as it has come to be known.

In my local church we were taught that the kingdom actually did dawn in 1979, but only those on the high level of the leadership were able to recognize it. To everyone else, it appeared nothing had changed. I never did quite figure out what all the survival training was about since it turned out to be all in the spirit realm - but then as soon as you start thinking with your carnal mind, you don't stay in the fellowship very long. The same thing was said about bringing down Satan with John’s death – only the enlightened were able to see it. We were told that even though Satan had been taken down, his underlings were still around and made it seems as though Satan was still in control. I know we were not supposed to noticed, but a few decades later, his name started popping up again. Apparently the chain he was bound with for a thousand years is pretty long and he is able to climb out of the hole and still harass people. More likely though, it was a bunch of crap that we were gullible enough to swallow - in spite of the taste. I can almost hear them laughing, “Just tell them God said it, and they'll believe anything.”

"In my local church we were taught that the kingdom actually did dawn in 1979, but only those on the high level of the leadership were able to recognize it. To everyone else, it appeared nothing had changed."

The Emperor's New Clothes...only the most pure in heart can see the clothes. Lol. ; )

HLL--High Level Leadership

HELL - High Executive Level Leadership. LOL ; )

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HELL - High Executive Level Leadership. LOL
> ; )


Better :)

MLM: Mid Level Ministry
LLM: Low Level ministry
NM: No Ministry
ZWRRPO: Zero With Rim Rubbed Partially Out
ZWRRCO: Zero With Rim Rubbed Completely Out



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2019 12:38AM by changedagain.

Changedagain,

I remember having a conversation about something along these lines in the late nineties. (I'll let you figure out the leader's identity.) His question to a few people at a small meeting was, "Who is a ministry in this local church?" My thinking was that anyone who had been around for several years and was involved was a ministry. Isn't that in the Bible?

Then he named an older guy who had basically been around forever, and asked, "Is he a ministry in this church?" I thought for a minute. Here is what went through my mind... "Can this guy be annoying sometimes? Yes, but who isn't? Does he come to elders meetings? No. Is he present and involved? Yes. Does he sit on the platform? No." And then I thought of all the young people this man and his wife had helped. They had taken me out to lunch years before when I felt lost and alone. They had always been very kind to people who needed help. I thought that was a ministry, so I answered that, yes, he was a ministry.

I was in the doghouse for awhile after that. Lol.