Aardvark - One of my dearest friends and roommates from the very beginning in 70/71 is quite a Biblical scholar deep thinker. She has presented a viewpoint of JRS that stands for the belief that he was many things in his humanity including a seeker of God, speaker of God's word, and a womanizer, etc. Because
of my own good experiences under JRS' teaching in the early years, and because of my respect for my friend's knowledge and her analytical mind, I have tended to soften my position on JRS so that I can reach a place of respect for him without denying the obvious abuses of power involved in his many extra-marital affairs and often in his directions to people in their own lives.

My difficulty in keeping a loving attitude towards all of the teachings in the Walk comes from what I have learned of the deception used to hide the sin. I refused to believe it for a very long time but an objective evaluation of the information I already knew (first hand from JRS' mouth) and the confirmed information I have since learned from multiple sources (i.e. yes it would stand up in court) could no longer be denied that JRS gave people "words from God" to do various things that were for the purpose of hiding what he believed would destroy his ministry.

I have endeavored to share information on this forum that I have either been able to confirm thru my own research, review of documentation, and/or obtained from multiple credible sources. If I have shared my own conclusions, I have tried to express them as my own opinion based on conclusions my research has led me to believe.

I don't want you to feel like you have to argue your point of view. I hope you don't feel like the participants on this forum necessarily demand only one conclusion. One thing we have all learned is that a group of people experiencing freedom can be a wild bunch of diverse opinions and experiences. The steps you are taking to "detox" and go in a new direction is admirable and I support you in whatever way it takes you to get there. If I can be of help, please let me know.

Onion,
I’m at a disadvantage here since I apparently don’t know the things that you know about JRS. But at this point I have less reason to believe you about these issues than I do to believe Gary Hargrave, for example, or anyone else who might refute your statements. I don’t know you - you may be an axe murderer or some disembodied spirit (joke). So, from my perspective you are not a credible witness. This is not an insult, just a statement of fact. If forced to choose between the joker I know and the one I don’t know, i have to choose the one I know, e.g. JRS etc.

Unfortunately, there’s no way out of this enigma since I can’t confront JRS directly. So i’m Left with questions. That being said, I know that many of the things I received from him were real, and worth clinging to. Others things not so much. Moving forward I have to rely on the Spirit to lead me into all truth, which is just the way JRS would have wanted it.

Make sense?

Puddington,
Well said, but I stand by my previous statements. This issue is complex because it is largely theological and would require a long winded biblical debate. The first question here is whether one believes as the charismatics do, for example, that God can and still does many of the same things that He did in the Bible. If you don’t believe that than any claim to a present supernatural manifestation can be viewed as the occult (I believe this is Nicol’s perspective).

On the other hand, if you generally believe and expect manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the church today then many of the things you named are not a problem (notwithstanding the Nephilim thing). It is then contingent upon the one witnessing the event to discern the spirit behind it. Is it the Spirit of God or another spirit?

Nothing that happened in the blessins is nearly as strange as the things that Jesus and the apostles did (I never saw JRS spit on someone’s tongue to heal him). The British preacher Smith Wigglesworth, in the early 20th century, did many things stranger than JRS.

I suspect you have a more conservative view of spiritual things. That’s OK, we don’t hold it against you. There’s room for all here.

Question: were you at the blessins? If so, did you find the Lord there like hundreds of others? Or did you see the occult in operation?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2019 08:16AM by Aardvark.

I seem to be failing miserably at this rehabilitation thing, huh? :). I’m too stubborn to go quietly.

Aardvark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Onion,
> I’m at a disadvantage here since I apparently
> don’t know the things that you know about JRS. But
> at this point I have less reason to believe you
> about these issues than I do to believe Gary
> Hargrave, for example, or anyone else who might
> refute your statements. I don’t know you - you
> may be an axe murderer or some disembodied spirit
> (joke). So, from my perspective you are not a
> credible witness. This is not an insult, just a
> statement of fact. If forced to choose between the
> joker I know and the one I don’t know, i have to
> choose the one I know, e.g. JRS etc.
>
> Unfortunately, there’s no way out of this enigma
> since I can’t confront JRS directly. So i’m Left
> with questions. That being said, I know that many
> of the things I received from him were real, and
> worth clinging to. Others things not so much.
> Moving forward I have to rely on the Spirit to
> lead me into all truth, which is just the way JRS
> would have wanted it.
>
> Make sense?

No one is forcing you to do otherwise. If you choose to believe 'the joker' you know, and toss aside most, if not everything you read here that doesn't seem credible to you, that is fine. If you're confident the Spirit will lead you into the truth, you obviously do not need to be persuaded one way or another. Trust Gary, trust John...trust an axe murdererer/disembodied spirit if you like.
BTW, I don't know who you are or what your motivation happens to be. Perhaps you were in TLWF for 47 years...perhaps it was 47 days. Perhaps you are genuinely seeking to see things from the perspective of most of the people writing here. Or perhaps your real motivation is simply to discredit this forum, claiming there is no basis for the allegations against the principal ministers of this movement. I know many of the regular contributors in the forum, and at this point, I choose to believe the accounts and observations of those I know (Puddington, Reep, Onion, Kboy etc.), than the 'joker' I don't know (Aardvark).
Don't take this personally. There's room for all here :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2019 09:37AM by changedagain.

Touché. That must have felt good!

Well deserved on my part, I’m sure.

No worries...I've been on the receiving end of quite a few blasts. Not saying they weren't deserved :)

Aardvark -

One thing I think we have all faced is dealing with having "drunk the lemonade" and waking up to find precious years and relationships and financial resources just living were consumed by a plague of locusts - the CLW. I too treasured relationships - still do - and have always felt that a majority of the "little people" were wonderful. But we were all drinking the same lemonade. The track of my life was irreparably harmed by the CLW. Waking up to that impacted my marriage in terrible ways. I was declared an enemy of the church and my daughter was taught not to consider me her father. She's a mess too now. Within the context of the cult it all seemed fine. We bought the premises. We went along. As soon as you truly step outside you see that the cancer was so entwined with healthy cells that there were no redeeming features. Yes there was some truth - but it was a toxic culture. I applaud your courage in being honest in this forum.

A A R D V A R K :


Well, you have already generated some healthy discussion and encountered the push-back you anticipated. No surprise there.

It's important to note that you are entering a community that has detoxed from TLW much longer and deeper than yourself, so it is quite natural to deny any exposure of something held quite dear for some time. Cultivating cognitive dissonance is what cults are all about and how they maintain their illusion. They are not repositories of truth.

I believe what has shocked us most here on this forum is the level of duplicity and hypocrisy that leadership demonstrated on the highest levels almost from the beginning, and the great efforts undertaken to contain and suppress anything that would tarnish the mystique. Most of the rank and file are/were more honest and honorable in attempting to be faithful to the Word than even the leadership. Most of us would never consider doing many of the things those in leadership had no second thoughts about doing.

I would dare say both you and I were far more 'worthy' to run the show than those who did--not that we would have wanted to ruin our lives doing that. Point being, you are among those (like yourself) who bore the heat of the day for decades, and sacrificed the best years of our lives so that a few at the top could pull the wool over our eyes and live a lifestyle that contradicted the Word. Worse yet, it was built on the illusion that we were feeding the 'upward flow', only to find out that it just padded their bank accounts in order to support a corrupted lifestyle that injured countless others.

No matter how much the Word 'tickled our ears', that Word was not taken seriously enough to be walked in by those who brought it.

Welcome Aardvark,

I would be interested to know, if you are willing to share, what were the things that caused you to leave after 47 years? Also, if you're willing to share, were you shunned in any way by those that still remain? Being called or treated as a blowout was a difficult thing for many of us that left. Maybe things have changed and people who leave now are treated differently.