Oh, boy! Fred and Ethel memories. And after they were all put together, some poor sucker had to go watch a bazillion extra copies of the old ones get shredded. They weren't allowed to leave the shredding techs unattended or leave until the job was completed because spies were no doubt waiting around every corner to steal a page for nefarious purposes.

Just curious, did you ever get to review G&M's Annual Shepherd's Report? Me neither. I bet they didn't even do one. ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 10:51AM by Reepicheep.

Reepicheep Wrote:

> Just curious, did you ever get to review G&M's
> Annual Shepherd's Report? Me neither. I bet they
> didn't even do one. ;)

Such models of integrity.

That’s right along the lines of claiming that Dave Boney was their shepherd. What a joke!

A post by changed from July of 2018, responding to a troll.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain
Date: July 29, 2018 07:32AM

Nickel,
Are you now writing on behalf on TLWF?
If people are having breakdowns within the fellowship, based on what is written here by family members...perhaps because it's because the truth of how they have been used and abused within TLWF is being exposed by those who actually care about them, and it is devastating to face.
As far as Gary's credibility goes, I recall recently you wrote something to the effect that he had received a letter from a former member of the South Gate church who left the fellowship in the 90's...joined the church of Satan...and was casting spells and curses toward South Gate members for not treating his wife respectfully. He then had an epiphany while shopping at Costco, and repented of his ways--allegedly sending that letter to Gary. Something laughably absurd as that.
Anyway, I would not take anything Gary feeds you as gospel. He has an agenda to protect his assets...which I suspect are pretty substantial about now.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That’s right along the lines of claiming that Dave
> Boney was their shepherd. What a joke!

Really.
That makes about as much sense as Sergeant Schulze shepherding Colonel Klink ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2019 05:26AM by changedagain.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, boy! Fred and Ethel memories. And after they
> were all put together, some poor sucker had to go
> watch a bazillion extra copies of the old ones get
> shredded. They weren't allowed to leave the
> shredding techs unattended or leave until the job
> was completed because spies were no doubt waiting
> around every corner to steal a page for nefarious
> purposes.

Sadly, I understand why a page might be stolen now and then. I recall being hyper-curious about how many paper clips various churches possessed, and wondering whether others in the fellowship had the same obsession. Not that I would ever be tempted to sell that info.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2019 05:32AM by changedagain.

changedagain Wrote: July 7, 2018

re: [businesssearch.sos.ca.gov]
-------------------------------------------------------
> Article IV
> Membership in this Corporation
>
> This corporation shall have no members. Any
> action which would normally require
> approval by members shall require approval of the
> Apostolic company, and the Directors of the
> corporation. All rights which normally
> would be vested in the members shall vest in the
> Apostolic company, and directors of this
> corporation.'
>
> Translation: authority is everything, members are
> irrelevant. It's the antithesis of what is
> expressed in the Declaration of Independence,
> where leaders serve only with the consent
> of the people:
>
> 'We hold these truths to be self-evident,
> that all men are created equal, that they endowed
> by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,
> that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit
> of happiness. That to secure these rights,
> governments are instituted among men, deriving
> their just powers from the consent of the
> governed.
>
> I realize there is a separation of church and
> state, and each will part ways over matters of
> governance. That said, I decided long ago that I
> will never respect
> corporations/organizations/institutions--religious
> or otherwise--over individuals. I've seen and
> experienced the damage caused by this approach. If
> the people are not happy, they feel oppressed,
> perhaps it is not them who need to change, but
> leadership itself. I consider that an
> understatement.

Thanks ChangedAgain
and since this there was a name changes:

Yes, Rick Holbrook is now listed as Chief Executive Officer, Karen Seboldt as Secretary and Steve Seboldt as Treasurer. The latest Statement of Information (SI) was filed January 18, 2018.

I have not researched myself yet, but have the names changed as of the resignations and cancelled ordinations, now, on this kind of document?

I know some people were told to sign agreements - I'm a blank as to what they called them. ( Basically promising not to tattletale.) Does anyone have any updates on those documents? ( Or am I just behind and missed the most current updates?)

To research up dated docs here's the link. CHURCH OF THE LIVING WORD search results page:


[businesssearch.sos.ca.gov]

I love digging deep for treasures. Here is a "gold mine" I did not know existed to be dug up. Goes to show how little of the future God revealed that could come back to haunt the likes of JRS - well worth the re-share.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Cloudwatcher ()
Date: July 14, 2018 12:20PM

Cloudwatcher quoted:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GoingRogue Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Yes, very unethical. Here is more proof that
> JRS
> > did, in fact, use the PhD title in the early
> days.
> >
> > Another link to the Ethel Waters vinyl. Click
> on
> > "More Images" to view the back of the album
> where
> > "Dr." John Robert Stevens wrote the program
> notes
> > and to get a better view of the logo.
> >
> [www.discogs.com]
> >
> > Here's a link to find out more about Paul
> > Mickelson, especially the following quote:
> >
> > In 1957, he said goodbye to the Billy Graham
> > Ministries and focused on his last album for
> RCA:
> > "The Music Of Paul Mickelson: Orchestra With
> > Singing Strings". In 1958, he became
> > vice-president and music director at Word
> Records,
> > where he orchestrated albums for many Christian
> > artists in addition to producing several
> > instrumental albums of his own.
> >
> [christmasyuleblog.blogspot.com]
>
> Holy shit he copied that logo--just a
> variation--Jesus didn't reveal it to him. Yikes.
> WTF


The "Dr" in front of John Robert Stevens I don't think says he is a phd- which we know he is not. Back in those days ministers used "doctor of divinity" to show how respected as a holy person - like a Catholic Priest.

I think jrs credentials may not be all that impressive as he wanted everyone to believe- IMO- but no one could Google facts until the future ( JRS obliviously was asleep at that part of his vision of future in Holy Jim Canyon- snark)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2019 06:26AM by NancyB.

NancyB Wrote:

> The "Dr" in front of John Robert Stevens I don't
> think says he is a phd- which we know he is not.
> Back in those days ministers used "doctor of
> divinity" to show how respected as a holy person -
> like a Catholic Priest.

All about projecting an image, unfortunately.

This post by Reveal from August of 2018:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: reveal ()
Date: August 17, 2018 02:37PM

I’ve thought about posting here for a long time, and have been working on this post for months. I have been wary of it because, as I mentioned in my initial post, I know for a fact that TLWF monitors this site. Creepy! I also just really want to move on with my life, and wasn’t sure if it was the right thing for me to do in my healing process, to come forward. However, it’s been weighing on me for a long while, and I know that I need to be free to speak about my experience. I think it’s time for those of us who have remained silent (and there are many of us) to start speaking out. So, here goes…

I was born and raised in the fellowship (an OG YASPer, too), and for a long time I never really considered how toxic it was because it was all I ever knew, but several years ago I started to wake up and I began to see things for what they were. I’ve lived in about five different TLWF locations, and with each new location a new set of shepherds, almost all of which were emotionally and spiritually abusive and extremely controlling. From the time I was a young child I experienced emotional abuse by the church. When I was just six or seven years old and attending the “Kingdom” school, the leaders of the school had decided that I was too bonded to my mother and forced me to stay several nights at the principal’s home as a way to get me disconnected from my mom. I was so confused why the school bus was passing my house and terrified that I was not being allowed to go home. This is one of MANY such odd church-related occurrences in my childhood.

In my twenties I was dating a man in the church, who unbeknownst to me had submitted our relationship to the shepherds. I wasn’t connecting with anyone at the time in a shepherding relationship and it was during the time that the words on having an Elijah/Elisha relationship were coming out. I had asked a particular shepherd to be that relationship to me and she said I could only have a relationship with her if I broke up with him. Weird, but also not uncommon…the shepherds have always interfered heavily with relationships, often splitting couples up or telling them they were not allowed to date someone in the first place because they didn’t “have a witness on it”. If you disobeyed them, you were usually ostracized and criticized. We were also so brainwashed with the belief system that if we did something without the blessing of the shepherds, we would be totally out of the will of God and therefore…fucked. In a word.

After I entered into this “Elijah/Elisha” relationship with this pastor, things got very bad for me. I was constantly being criticized for EVERYTHING by her, for the way I talked, how I dressed, how I behaved, every little fucking detail of my life and personality was scrutinized. She said very cruel things to me about my character, even though she had never taken the time to get to know me at all. And speaking of “Girls Turn it Off” I was even told by her that the only reason that guy I was dating ever wanted to date me in the first place was because I “beamed it at him” to like me. I was also berated for dressing “provocatively” at a social function because I was “clearly trying to get his attention”. I was wearing jeans and a modest blouse, by the way. I started wearing dumpy sweatshirts after that. Men were never held responsible for their part, women were basically just slut shamed unjustifiably.

I became very isolated and depressed during this time. I was purposely excluded from many functions and constantly getting in trouble for every little thing. I had massive anxiety because I was paranoid about getting another “talking to”, as it happened so often. I felt I had to walk on eggshells at all times. It left me feeling so horribly about myself that I had almost zero self-esteem. It was a very lonely time.

The abuse continued with nearly every other shepherd I had subsequent to her. It was either highly personal attacks or it was having my life so controlled I could hardly stand it. At one point it became intolerable, as a lifetime of being abused in this way became too much to handle. I became so depressed and self-loathing that I began hurting myself. The constant criticism, the pressure to perform according to shepherds’ expectations, being ostracized when I did not live up to their expectations, struggling to earn their love and acceptance, the never-ending scrutiny and so-called discipline piled up until I felt I was a worthless, unlovable piece of shit. I tried going to therapy but it was hard to get anywhere when I knew if I told the truth about my situation IT WOULD SOUND LIKE I WAS IN A CULT. I literally remember thinking that.

It was only after I spent some time away from a local church for the first time in my life and began to slowly feel better that I realized perhaps it was the church itself that was making me so depressed. But I kept hoping things would change in the church, and because of a lifetime of being conditioned to think that any doubts I had about it were satanic deception or something, I stuck around for several years even after I began having major doubts. I kept hoping that things would get better, but nothing ever changed, in fact the Living Word culture only became more oppressive and fanatical.

Everything is very manipulative in the Fellowship. They play this messed up game of giving and then withdrawing affection, demanding total participation, and making you fearful of being rejected by the group. They play on people’s longing to belong. They tell you that submission is not absolutely required, but you better believe that there will be consequences if you don’t submit to them. You will be punished by being excluded, gossiped about, removed from teams, positions (even paid jobs), relationships, and will be generally coldshouldered. I’ve heard shepherds make fun of people for “subnouncing” things, as in announcing what they were going to do rather than submitting it. So many of us abided by shepherding directives that felt totally wrong because we knew if we didn’t we would be ostracized. They also convinced us that “even if the shepherds are wrong, God will honor your submission and make it right.” How many of you have been fed that line before?

The prevailing culture of the group is so deeply entrenched in these negative ways of treating the sheep and its disturbing hierarchical structure promotes exclusivity, elitism and man-worship. The leadership is very toxic, abusive, and self-serving.

After I finally decided to split with the church a couple of years ago, I began to feel more happy and free than I had ever felt in my entire life. I also felt that the things that had troubled me internally for so long were starting to get better. I actually started to grow spiritually, something I did not feel happened for me in the church. I felt like we were always going around the same mountain over and over again. I realized that I rarely saw much change or growth in people at all, in the Fellowship.

It makes me incredibly angry that we were all so abused when all we were trying to do was walk with God. It makes me angry that I waited so long to leave, believing that it would change and get better, all the while enduring more and more psychological crap that I have to now get over. I’m working really hard to forgive everyone that is responsible for the hurt and abuse, but it is not easy. Oddly, it is especially difficult to reconcile my anger with the love I have for even the ones that were so awful to me. It was my love for those people that kept me believing they could change. But I could no longer continue to be a part of an organization that is so cold-hearted, hypocritical and judgmental. They say TLWF is a family. It is not. It is a business.

Onion mentioned a lot of former members likely having PTSD. I started seeing a therapist towards the end of my time in TLWF and have continued since. I was diagnosed with PTSD. My therapist said my experience has all of the similarities of a domestic abuse situation. It’s been very enlightening to finally speak with someone openly and honestly about what I experienced in the Fellowship, and having them completely, 100% validate that it was extremely abusive and dysfunctional.

Originally I wasn’t planning to post on this site, not wanting any TLWF people to have a reason to label me another bitter blowout. But reading others’ stories here helped validate my own experience with TLWF as a truly abusive organization. These stories have to be told. I know countless stories of others who have been deeply wounded by their involvement in the Fellowship (all in recent years) but they are not my stories to tell. If you’ve been lurking on this forum like me for years but haven’t yet shared your experience, please post it. There is strength in numbers, so share your story.

-reveal