Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 02, 2019 02:19AM
NancyB Wrote:
> With that said, how in the world does Gary
> Hargrave get off peddling his so called revelation
> of what "god" is doing today?
For the past 35 years of so, the only ones in the fellowship who could get away with saying 'no' to him were Marilyn, and perhaps Rick. I can't think of anyone beyond those two, post-John.
Oh...I forgot about God in the sky. Add Him too :)
> With that said, how in the world does Gary
> Hargrave get off peddling his so called revelation
> of what "god" is doing today?
For the past 35 years of so, the only ones in the fellowship who could get away with saying 'no' to him were Marilyn, and perhaps Rick. I can't think of anyone beyond those two, post-John.
Oh...I forgot about God in the sky. Add Him too :)
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Reepicheep
()
Date: July 02, 2019 05:25AM
Quote
NancyB Wrote:
> With that said, how in the world does Gary
> Hargrave get off peddling his so called revelation
> of what "god" is doing today?
Changedagain Wrote:
For the past 35 years of so, the only ones in the fellowship who could get away with saying 'no' to him were Marilyn, and perhaps Rick. I can't think of anyone beyond those two, post-John.
Oh...I forgot about God in the sky. Add Him too :)
Well, for awhile, GH claimed that a certain head of consturction in the islands was his shepherd. I sincerely doubt that said shepherd gave him any "Words from God" that weren't welcomed. And sadly, this same person was sent to Brazil and died in a car accident several years ago.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2019 05:25AM by Reepicheep.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 02, 2019 07:19AM
Reepicheep Wrote:
> Well, for awhile, GH claimed that a certain head
> of construction in the islands was his shepherd. I
> sincerely doubt that said shepherd gave him any
> "Words from God" that weren't welcomed. And sadly,
> this same person was sent to Brazil and died in a
> car accident several years ago.
Yes, I know who you're talking about. He was trained as a servant to G & M, so it's unlikely he would ever cross Gary.
Sad to hear about the deadly traffic accident.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2019 07:20AM by changedagain.
> Well, for awhile, GH claimed that a certain head
> of construction in the islands was his shepherd. I
> sincerely doubt that said shepherd gave him any
> "Words from God" that weren't welcomed. And sadly,
> this same person was sent to Brazil and died in a
> car accident several years ago.
Yes, I know who you're talking about. He was trained as a servant to G & M, so it's unlikely he would ever cross Gary.
Sad to hear about the deadly traffic accident.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2019 07:20AM by changedagain.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Onion
()
Date: July 02, 2019 11:00AM
The man in Brazil who G&M designated as their shepherd (as if they would ever be submissive like they demanded us to be...) was actually pretty severely "potatoed" by G&M when he went to live in Brazil.
For those of you unfamiliar with the potato principle, I created that label for what anyone who was working near G&M would experience at various times. They would rave about you and practically designate you the second coming and then without anything else changing, they would act like they couldn't see you because they treated you like a potato - stored in a cold dark place and forgotten about until they needed you (to eat) or you started to smell and they threw you away.
They had done that to Boney when he went to Brazil so maybe he had actually stood up to them and then gotten their usual response of rejection and potatoing. The details of his crash were horrific and unlike what many of us thought, it doesn't seem that alcohol was involved. It involved him being unable to wear a seatbelt and going off one of the lousy roads and sustaining injuries related to not wearing his seatbelt. Quite horrible and still rips at me to think about it. When I knew him (pre-G&M takeover), he was a wonderfully sweet man.
For those of you unfamiliar with the potato principle, I created that label for what anyone who was working near G&M would experience at various times. They would rave about you and practically designate you the second coming and then without anything else changing, they would act like they couldn't see you because they treated you like a potato - stored in a cold dark place and forgotten about until they needed you (to eat) or you started to smell and they threw you away.
They had done that to Boney when he went to Brazil so maybe he had actually stood up to them and then gotten their usual response of rejection and potatoing. The details of his crash were horrific and unlike what many of us thought, it doesn't seem that alcohol was involved. It involved him being unable to wear a seatbelt and going off one of the lousy roads and sustaining injuries related to not wearing his seatbelt. Quite horrible and still rips at me to think about it. When I knew him (pre-G&M takeover), he was a wonderfully sweet man.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 03, 2019 12:49AM
Onion:
When I knew him (pre-G&M takeover), he was a wonderfully sweet man.
Long-term exposure to G & M cured any shepherd afflicted with a sweet or kind nature. Unless he/she was not reticent to use the 'rod of discipline' to ensure obedient 'sheep,' their tenure was short.
Note: I did a search for the word "obedience" in the category "former cult members and affected families"--which includes over 400 discussion groups. I received 257 results--192 pointing to our discussion group. Apparently even among cults, at least in this category, the emphasis on obedience within our church was extraordinarily.
Poster kBoy summarized it this way back in September of 2018:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kBOY
Date: September 08, 2018
The 'unquestionable obedience' services that were held shortly after JRS' passing set the tone for the new regime; my way or the highway. Since there was now only 'one way', there was no interest in hearing anything contrary. With the apples never falling far from the tree, all subsequent 'shepherd training' also included the lack of any shepherd's heart, leaving all the bleating sheep to simply bleed-out.
A sadder fact still was that no matter what form of abuse was levied upon the sheep, there was always some scripture 'foundation' for the affront. What started out as a movement where no pie ever reached our plate, has unfortunately devolved into it's own me-too movement of abuse, all in the name of God.
When I knew him (pre-G&M takeover), he was a wonderfully sweet man.
Long-term exposure to G & M cured any shepherd afflicted with a sweet or kind nature. Unless he/she was not reticent to use the 'rod of discipline' to ensure obedient 'sheep,' their tenure was short.
Note: I did a search for the word "obedience" in the category "former cult members and affected families"--which includes over 400 discussion groups. I received 257 results--192 pointing to our discussion group. Apparently even among cults, at least in this category, the emphasis on obedience within our church was extraordinarily.
Poster kBoy summarized it this way back in September of 2018:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kBOY
Date: September 08, 2018
The 'unquestionable obedience' services that were held shortly after JRS' passing set the tone for the new regime; my way or the highway. Since there was now only 'one way', there was no interest in hearing anything contrary. With the apples never falling far from the tree, all subsequent 'shepherd training' also included the lack of any shepherd's heart, leaving all the bleating sheep to simply bleed-out.
A sadder fact still was that no matter what form of abuse was levied upon the sheep, there was always some scripture 'foundation' for the affront. What started out as a movement where no pie ever reached our plate, has unfortunately devolved into it's own me-too movement of abuse, all in the name of God.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 03, 2019 02:45AM
From August of 2018:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: August 25, 2018 02:23PM
I have to admire this man's tenacity...constantly pounding the theme of obedience & the Lordship of Christ into the congregation. Never letting up.
The power of repetition reinforces the concept that the purpose of your life is to give up your entire being to him, as 'Christ in the flesh.' Perverse. The fact that this approach has born no fruit for 40+ years is a glaring sign that God has had nothing to do with it. Continuing down this path is a guarantee you'll be 'running in vain' & 'missing the mark'--while subjecting yourself to needless misery.
He is not God and is a really sick and weak and tiny little man. He would crumble without his worshipers and their money. And every penny he has Is/was their money--millions of dollars and assets-- taken from their future, their hopes and dreams, and their family vacations to Hawaii or elsewhere, their vacation homes, boats, children's inheritance--all to fund his wealth and lavish lifestyle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2019 02:45AM by changedagain.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: August 25, 2018 02:23PM
I have to admire this man's tenacity...constantly pounding the theme of obedience & the Lordship of Christ into the congregation. Never letting up.
The power of repetition reinforces the concept that the purpose of your life is to give up your entire being to him, as 'Christ in the flesh.' Perverse. The fact that this approach has born no fruit for 40+ years is a glaring sign that God has had nothing to do with it. Continuing down this path is a guarantee you'll be 'running in vain' & 'missing the mark'--while subjecting yourself to needless misery.
He is not God and is a really sick and weak and tiny little man. He would crumble without his worshipers and their money. And every penny he has Is/was their money--millions of dollars and assets-- taken from their future, their hopes and dreams, and their family vacations to Hawaii or elsewhere, their vacation homes, boats, children's inheritance--all to fund his wealth and lavish lifestyle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2019 02:45AM by changedagain.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 03, 2019 02:49AM
Also from August of 2018:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: cultfree
Date: August 25, 2018 03:10AM
I feel nothing but outrage over the word on hierarchy. As Reveal so eloquently pointed out, hierarchy is the fabric of TLWF.
The part of it that really gets to me is that what Gary is doing here is basically acknowledging that up until now, the church has operated on a hierarchy. That hierarchy was put in place to directly benefit the people at the top, at the sacrifice of the common people.
Remember the words that used to come on "position thinking"? That was the leadership saying "Nope! No hierarchy here!". When people would come to them and complain "Hey, there is this strange double standard for the leadership, and this thing seems to be arranged around the benefit of the people at the top. That feels wrong". Those objections would be met with "Hey, that's not true. You're guilty of position thinking right now". They took the objections of well meaning people, and turned them back on them. Saying that the wrong they saw was all a result of something they were doing, not the leadership. To user a modern term: it's victim blaming.
And now we've come in to a "new day". Well what about the "old day"? Are you going to talk about that? I know a lot of the current word is about people being able to "speak up". Is that really what they want? Because there is a whole forum of people here "speaking up", and they act like it doesn't exist.
Regardless of whatever Gary Hargrave is saying in this word, he's still got to build a system that is beneficial to Rick Holbrook. Rick is like a zoo animal, he could never make it in the wild. His broken moral compass has been supported by TLWF for so long, that he has become dependent on it. No matter what, the system has to work to support Rick, and excuse all his missteps. No one in their right mind would speak up about the myriad of things Rick does that are messed up, because they know the cost. There is no "higher confirmation" with Rick. He's at the top, and you better be okay with what he does, or else. He doesn't even pretend to be a pastor looking after the people. That guy treats TLWF like his play thing, and the Rayen Resort is his pleasure island.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: cultfree
Date: August 25, 2018 03:10AM
I feel nothing but outrage over the word on hierarchy. As Reveal so eloquently pointed out, hierarchy is the fabric of TLWF.
The part of it that really gets to me is that what Gary is doing here is basically acknowledging that up until now, the church has operated on a hierarchy. That hierarchy was put in place to directly benefit the people at the top, at the sacrifice of the common people.
Remember the words that used to come on "position thinking"? That was the leadership saying "Nope! No hierarchy here!". When people would come to them and complain "Hey, there is this strange double standard for the leadership, and this thing seems to be arranged around the benefit of the people at the top. That feels wrong". Those objections would be met with "Hey, that's not true. You're guilty of position thinking right now". They took the objections of well meaning people, and turned them back on them. Saying that the wrong they saw was all a result of something they were doing, not the leadership. To user a modern term: it's victim blaming.
And now we've come in to a "new day". Well what about the "old day"? Are you going to talk about that? I know a lot of the current word is about people being able to "speak up". Is that really what they want? Because there is a whole forum of people here "speaking up", and they act like it doesn't exist.
Regardless of whatever Gary Hargrave is saying in this word, he's still got to build a system that is beneficial to Rick Holbrook. Rick is like a zoo animal, he could never make it in the wild. His broken moral compass has been supported by TLWF for so long, that he has become dependent on it. No matter what, the system has to work to support Rick, and excuse all his missteps. No one in their right mind would speak up about the myriad of things Rick does that are messed up, because they know the cost. There is no "higher confirmation" with Rick. He's at the top, and you better be okay with what he does, or else. He doesn't even pretend to be a pastor looking after the people. That guy treats TLWF like his play thing, and the Rayen Resort is his pleasure island.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 03, 2019 05:50AM
From September of 2018:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: cultfree
Date: September 06, 2018 12:37PM
Lately, I have been feeling a deep sense of heartsickness. I am heartsick for those who are still stuck in that thing. We've all been able to accept what we were part of, and move forward with our lives as free people, but there are still people I love and care about who are under the Gary Hargrave spell. His sharp tongue is constantly reinforcing the abuse and control, and people I love are susceptible to it. One of the things that is most painful about it is most of them do not even realize they are under his spell. The things he says now sound normal to them.
I've come to the place where I realize I can't control everything, and I can't just snap my fingers and make that place go away. All I can do is be really really honest with the people I love, and hope that something I say will take root in them. All I can offer them is freedom, love, and support. The process wasn't an overnight one for any of the people here, so it probably isn't going to be that way for people who are still stuck in it.
I personally encourage folks to speak honestly with the people they know who are still in it. I think the most important thing we can be to those people is a source of honesty, truth, and love.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: cultfree
Date: September 06, 2018 12:37PM
Lately, I have been feeling a deep sense of heartsickness. I am heartsick for those who are still stuck in that thing. We've all been able to accept what we were part of, and move forward with our lives as free people, but there are still people I love and care about who are under the Gary Hargrave spell. His sharp tongue is constantly reinforcing the abuse and control, and people I love are susceptible to it. One of the things that is most painful about it is most of them do not even realize they are under his spell. The things he says now sound normal to them.
I've come to the place where I realize I can't control everything, and I can't just snap my fingers and make that place go away. All I can do is be really really honest with the people I love, and hope that something I say will take root in them. All I can offer them is freedom, love, and support. The process wasn't an overnight one for any of the people here, so it probably isn't going to be that way for people who are still stuck in it.
I personally encourage folks to speak honestly with the people they know who are still in it. I think the most important thing we can be to those people is a source of honesty, truth, and love.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Road to Damascus
()
Date: July 03, 2019 07:52PM
I have been thinking about the so called word given last summer where GH said a time of persecution was coming and we would be tested to stay steady in the word. Makes me wonder if he knew what was coming. This coupled with the whole will you remain obedient is what some that still remain hold onto along with the idea that every group has this type of thing. I would not be surprised if he knew there was a problem and he was trying to manage and keep it from exploding. Does anyone out there know anything about this time from June 2018 until November 2018. Interesting how so many that are left buy into and hold on to what he said during that time. Control, manipulation and lies. I think of him as the snake oil salesman.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Reepicheep
()
Date: July 03, 2019 10:36PM
Quote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Road to Damascus ()
Date: July 03, 2019 05:52AM
I have been thinking about the so called word given last summer where GH said a time of persecution was coming and we would be tested to stay steady in the word. Makes me wonder if he knew what was coming. This coupled with the whole will you remain obedient is what some that still remain hold onto along with the idea that every group has this type of thing. I would not be surprised if he knew there was a problem and he was trying to manage and keep it from exploding. Does anyone out there know anything about this time from June 2018 until November 2018. Interesting how so many that are left buy into and hold on to what he said during that time. Control, manipulation and lies. I think of him as the snake oil salesman.
Road to Damascus, I believe that Gary Hargrave has watched this forum since it began. Things have definitely been heating up for the past couple of years. You are correct that the sermons preached at the 2018 SOP were no accident. You know how G&M always said that "the Word" doesn't happen in a vacuum? As I recall from the online information, nearly every message was about obedience. It does not surprise me at all that he spoke of persecution. That has been a method of control since the beginning days with JRS. I have heard reports that even one younger pastor was insisting that Gary begin an internal review. (As though Gary and Marilyn weren't at the root of all cover-ups since JRS' death.)
What does surprise me is that there are people still supporting GH now that he has resigned and basically gone into hiding, leaving his faithful hanging out to dry. Will he be found in a well like Saddam Hussein? Or will he preserve some small following and re-emerge with a different ministry focus? Time will tell. Either way, I believe that he is finished with his previous life as Apostolic Fathering Ministry of The Living Word Fellowship. The demise of cowards is always thus. The ones who seem to be the baddest and the most in control are found cowering in cupboards and wells when confronted by actual authority. He will not be there for the people.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2019 10:38PM by Reepicheep.
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