puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome Imapurple. That’s a great name. I recall
> the “purples” being discussed on this forum and
> some people didn’t believe that they really
> existed. I was a part-time purple, so I know what
> this means. They really did exist. Sort of like
> Marilyn’s SS squad.
>
> Welcome. Full steam ahead with the healing.

Thank you for your openness Imapurple. I some how knew about the group of ladies but was never much details.

I'm closing my eyes as I dare ask this question - were the purples essentially a 'coven' by definition?

I ask because I remember hearing 2nd hand about the fiasco with the witch jrs, I think, was learning from. The walk was all adopted from other religions; believes; practices etc and wrongly labeled as Christian - which, of course is what the early members donated to.

2 posts from 2017 a great comment and question on mental health among TLW members. What do you think?

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you think there are an unusual number of TLW
> members with mental problems? Depression.
> Schizophrenia. Etc. Do you think the LW
> environment attracts them? And exasperates their
> problems?
>
> One thing is apparent to me. The LW doesn't help
> them. I can remember certain members being
> directed to not get help. And when they got worse
> with their problems, they were told to stop
> attending services.

"Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NickleandDimed ()
Date: August 30, 2017 03:14AM

puddington replied:

"I recall spiraling down in depression. One of the older pastors expressed concern. John said it was tribulation. John lacked discernment. He saw mental health through a lens of spirituality. Most charismatics do. They ignore the biological and psychological components. Brain abnormalities and genetics. The brain can get sick and depressed. Sometimes the brain heals itself. However, some mental health professions think this. Untreated depression can set you up. For a life time of mental health problems. I suspect some members. Who have depression. Self medicate with booze. There's better ways to treat depression."

My opinion is that TLW exacerbated mental health issues. I think most people have some kind of "issues" but the better their family and friend support system is the better they fair and manage their symptoms.

Personally, I had long standing ptsd - my little secret that I was afraid JRS could see and declare me a bad girl. I had depression.

I also had extreme fatigue related to endocrine disorders that took decades to diagnose. I would mentally and physically collapse from working 60 to 80 hours a week, take care of my family and go to Shiloh or Anaheim meetings.

I had REAL medical diagnosis - but they did not want me to seek medical attention nor follow up with treatment. I think the leaders and my father-in-law were afraid I would revel too much. Of course it was some kind of bad spirit in me. - I generally had to call for emergency help when my husband would not be there to take the phone from me. - Well fellow Walkers you can guess I got no help except from a few sneaky friends.

My husband tried to drown his depression with booze and odd otc "medications". Turns out that was the general rule among many men we knew in the Anaheim church. I talked to my father-in-law about my husband sneak drinking and spending the rent money. He said I needed to get my spirit in order and be a submissive wife. - got council with the elders...I was told that I was "bitch" and to shut up and get my spirit right. I was a "bitch" and I knew too much.

My answer is to the mental health question is that twl leadership where I was did not support mental health treatment. I warehoused at Shiloh one summer rather than getting therapy that would have exposed and treated my problem. They lead one to believe that you were "crazy" with a wrong spirit. They pushed self doubt in me - I still have to double check my gut feelings about liars and substance abusers were live around today.

I still cringe when I set limits and some one tells me that I'm seeing things wrong....I was so programmed. TLW leadership were crazy makers. Some of us came in to the cult with traumatic backgrounds in varying degrees- we needed healing.

I think that leadership enabled those with substance abuse rather than encouraging them to get help. Well, a number of the leadership often were in need of substance abuse treatment themselves - I have to question any real revelation not substance induced.

I Don't mean to lump all metal health and substance abuse into one package...except in the eyes of the cult any problem was some kind of enemy assault - they had no licence to diagnosis and treat - they sure did not have the wisdom to know when to get someone help. There was NO healthy balance in their expectations. We were expected to eat, sleep, and breathe the leader and ignore our healthy filters.

corboy Wrote in 2017 a great response to a question and other comment wondering if TLW had more mental health issues exacerbated by RLW
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone who specializes in treating alcoholism and
> other addictions
> told me that anyone with a chemical or process
> addiction should,
> after detox, be routinely evaluated in case they
> have depression, bipolar, learning disabilities,
> ADD, ADHD and or histories of trauma/molestation.
>
> It is tragically common for people to self
> medicate due to an untreated
> underlying condition.
>
> One wouldn't tell someone to pray away their
> diabetes or nearsightedness.
>
> When we are little we the first thing we look for
> are hugs, NOT vodka, pot
> or gambling. When we little, we do not desire to
> become alcoholics or religious fanatics when we
> grow up.
>
> We want to be played with, hugged, and that warm
> secure feeling that
> makes for a soft slide into slumber.
>
> I've read a few memoirs by people who grew up with
> religious fanatic parents.
>
> I've learned to ask, "Who in this family has been
> molested, chemically addicted, and or likely to
> have been depressed? And how many generations
> back does this go?"


I personally have wondered about the dynamic of why each of our families sought out the Living Word and did not see through jrs charisma in the first place?

I know many visitors after a special service in 1950 and early '60's questioned JRS message saying "Not Biblically sound." Since my parents were into a new fad for them at the time, they denied any problem - did not listen- argued in favor of jrs instead of searching the Bible for the truth.

I saw my parents addicted to running from here to there looking for "secrets your doctor or preacher won't tell you" as a mental illness- they loved to follow and quote a leader in order to make themselves look enlightened. They loved new fads - the different rather than having stable routines for their kids. They would go to all kinds of meeting until early hours of the morning talking with other people about what ever the fad- while my sisters and I tried to sleep in the car on a school night. when JRS came to town, they were there at every service talking and dissecting and rehashing every "new secret long after the church doors were locked. They were "addicted" to the different".

my 2 cents worth

I'm still binge reading with my feet up - sorry for hogging the forum, but, I can't resist when I run across some significant posts.

JRS sister Mary Arnold, an RN, had a heart for a retirement home for those that were aging. I felt like we were PROMISED a kingdom nursing home. That promise got forgotten. So we have aging loved ones who worked their tail off at Shiloh only to be dumped and forgotten.

Here's a post that reminded me. Thank you filthy apron

Quote

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Invisible ()
Date: May 05, 2017 06:04PM

filthy apron,

"In your last post of May 3, 2017

You wrote ..........apparently TLW does not have the funds or the wherewithal to take care of their aging population! ............

To Share - PART OF THE VISION FOR SHILOH

you wrote a concern for the aging population of TLW. I have been thinking about what you wrote these last couple of days. I thought I would share with you how in the early days when John Stevens began to lay out the vision for Shiloh and the members began contributing their finances to be able to buy the land where Shiloh was to be built - part of the vision that motivated and inspired the people to make Shiloh happen - was John said, he wanted a convalescent home to be built at Shiloh and for our members to work there. He spoke about the many sacrifices that so many had made and he wanted there to be a provision for our members for when they grew old or could no longer care for themselves . He spoke about how when they grew old, we should care for our aged members - so that they could live out their remaining years, with honor and dignity, by being be cared for by us, with our loving hands in honor of their years of sacrifice." end quote



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2019 07:10AM by NancyB.

NancyB, you brought up many valid questions about mental health and substance abuse in TLWF. A quote:

"I Don't mean to lump all metal health and substance abuse into one package...except in the eyes of the cult any problem was some kind of enemy assault - they had no licence to diagnosis and treat - they sure did not have the wisdom to know when to get someone help. There was NO healthy balance in their expectations. We were expected to eat, sleep, and breathe the leader and ignore our healthy filters."

From studying I have done recently, it seems very common in cultic groups for leaders to make demands on members' time such that they ignore basic healthy routines in sleep, nutrition, family time and self-care. Keeping people chronically sleep deprived and driven to perform at all costs is a classic cult tactic. This is also a method used for eroding the ability to make sound personal decisions. [www.tuck.com]

You have also mentioned that JRS and other leaders had substance abuse problems themselves. JRS seemed to feel that "the battle" justified his reliance on alcohol, the drug of choice in TLWF. This filtered down into the rank and file members as well. If a person refrained from drinking, they were considered "religious" (an extremely pejorative term in TLWF). This was especially true in CLW and other larger "Kingdom Facilities". I was often concerned by the effect this culture was surely having on young people in the group. I felt that they were learning to follow the same paradigms, predisposing them to the same lifestyle and problems as their parents. I have heard recently from several younger people that this was indeed the case, and that an inordinate number of them became reliant on alcohol. Some became alcoholics or drug addicts. A sorry legacy.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NancyB, you brought up many valid questions about
> mental health and substance abuse in TLWF. A
> quote:
>
> "I Don't mean to lump all metal health and
> substance abuse into one package...except in the
> eyes of the cult any problem was some kind of
> enemy assault - they had no licence to diagnosis
> and treat - they sure did not have the wisdom to
> know when to get someone help. There was NO
> healthy balance in their expectations. We were
> expected to eat, sleep, and breathe the leader and
> ignore our healthy filters."
>
> From studying I have done recently, it seems very
> common in cultic groups for leaders to make
> demands on members' time such that they ignore
> basic healthy routines in sleep, nutrition, family
> time and self-care. Keeping people chronically
> sleep deprived and driven to perform at all costs
> is a classic cult tactic. This is also a method
> used for eroding the ability to make sound
> personal decisions.
> [www.tuck.com]
>
> You have also mentioned that JRS and other leaders
> had substance abuse problems themselves. JRS
> seemed to feel that "the battle" justified his
> reliance on alcohol, the drug of choice in TLWF.
> This filtered down into the rank and file members
> as well. If a person refrained from drinking, they
> were considered "religious" (an extremely
> pejorative term in TLWF). This was especially true
> in CLW and other larger "Kingdom Facilities". I
> was often concerned by the effect this culture was
> surely having on young people in the group. I felt
> that they were learning to follow the same
> paradigms, predisposing them to the same lifestyle
> and problems as their parents. I have heard
> recently from several younger people that this was
> indeed the case, and that an inordinate number of
> them became reliant on alcohol. Some became
> alcoholics or drug addicts. A sorry legacy.

Thank you Reep so much for validating and stating more succinctly than I ever can. My hope is for all of us to live healthy well balanced lives now that we have seen "the light" on what was really going on.

I can understand not being uptight about drinking--especially since Jesus' first miracle was changing water into wine. But like everything within TLWF, it went down a deranged path. When the percentage of alcoholics in the fellowship far exceed that in the 'outside world,' something is amiss. I think many of us have been on the receiving end of a directive delivered by a drunk ministry that was not just irrational but bizarre, and if followed, would have ruinous consequences. Yes, there are people that can function adequately while drunk, but that is beside the point. In fact, I say that every time I board an airplane and greet the pilot.

I would encourage those who are following this thread to go to the Zalkin Law Firm site on Facebook and view the interview with several from TLWF who have filed lawsuits today.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would encourage those who are following this
> thread to go to the Zalkin Law Firm site on
> Facebook and view the interview with several from
> TLWF who have filed lawsuits today.

thank you larry. I had not been able to find a lawyer. Will check it out.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can understand not being uptight about
> drinking--especially since Jesus' first miracle
> was changing water into wine. But like everything
> within TLWF, it went down a deranged path. When
> the percentage of alcoholics in the fellowship far
> exceed that in the 'outside world,' something is
> amiss. I think many of us have been on the
> receiving end of a directive delivered by a drunk
> ministry that was not just irrational but bizarre,
> and if followed, would have ruinous consequences.
> Yes, there are people that can function adequately
> while drunk, but that is beside the point. In
> fact, I say that every time I board an airplane
> and greet the pilot.

In appreciate your comment, changed. Some people have no problem managing a few drinks. But for some people things become "unmanageable" when drinking. Those around them can get into the habit of covering for the alcoholic.

Alcoholism is a disease that can be treated. I remember some young men in Anaheim stating that they "are under grace" so they can do what ever they want. some claimed that they got their "best revelations when drunk or high."

It seemed to me that leadership had no intention of getting anyone treatment they needed.