Hey Onion, I am so happy you are with us. This is a damned complicated sticky mess we are in all together.

I believe we all did what we thought was right at the time. We were are systemically deceived. None of us, including you, Onion, ever had the whole truth at anyone time. The cover ups were a deliberate attempt to have power and control that were not your fault, nor most of the members failure.

As an Oldie but goodie I personally grieve that I did not do enough when I saw bits and pieces of wrong from way back in the '60's. I will never understand how some people were able to close their eyes - I guess they were every bit victims of lies and deceit as well.

I am blessed to have you share what you do filling in so many blanks in my head as well as for my good friends.

Let's keep peeling off those onion layers.

Quote

NancyB wrote:
It is increasingly more clear that tlw collected all kind of data on us but not as sophisticated in the early days as is possible with computers. Watch the key words you use - it is easy to do a search engine search for even a not so expert to find out a lot about you and know how to target anyone as a victim.

changedagain wrote:
Following John's death, I recall Marilyn admitting such on one of those restricted tapes that were required listening for some of us. She basically threatened those in TLW who were leaving the fellowship, letting them know she had sensitive info on many of them, and wouldn't hesitate using it should they speak out about her and/or the inner circle.

And yet again, this sounds more and more like strong arm Scientology tactics. I recommend watching The Path on Hulu if you haven't yet.

I ask again, whose Kingdom was being built with our money and free labor? NancyB and changed, we were definitely not told the truth about that. No Christ's Kingdom to be found.

Hi reep.
Whose kingdom indeed!

Is god's first name Fraud?

If Fraud God gave you a word with 5 points - 4 points were fact but the 5th was a big fat lie - is the word of direction the truth or a lie?

How do trust anyone who slips in lies?

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
NancyB
> YIKES! the impact of this just hit me - hit me
> hard on how diabolically deceptive jrs was to
> sneak in occult garbage to suspecting Christians
> in Iowa where I grew up in the '50's. OMG!
>
> thanks to posting this eye opener - my gut did
> know this- but I need to see the facts in back and
> white to move forward - not move on. I, along with
> all the other survivors needs to get the "ax to
> root" of the problem that infiltrated so far back
> that it is sickening.
>

>
> NancyB, you had the advantage of seeing The Walk
> from the viewpoint of WJ Stevens, who seemed to
> honestly love the people and was a genuine
> Christian. His son, JRS, on the other hand, was
> thrown out of pastoring in at least two
> denominations before starting his own church in
> South Gate, CA. We were always told that the
> reason was "persecution", but we may never know
> the truth. Was it his weird teachings, womanizing,
> or both? Was it trying to draw all congregants to
> himself, or failure to follow the teachings of the
> denomination? Maybe all of the above.

John was nothing like his father. WJ as i knew him was loving and kind. Anytime there was tragic news to deliver in town and they weren't members of a church WJ went with the police or sheriff to deliver the bad news.

WJ opened the doors to anyone even the poorest in town whom other churches did not want.

WJ had compassion. He did not put up with his flock being hurt. One of the sisters of a peer had gotten married and had 3 kids. The husband beat the crap out of her. WJ helped to hide her and the kids and encouraged divorce - he made a very clear statement that our believes do not promote divorce - in the event a wife and children are harmed he would not tolerate the abuse - He said it as father would say with love - this is not what JRS did in a few years to come.

WJ called my mom when he heard one of my foster sisters talking inappropriately on the church phone. He really called parents when he knew kids were crossing the line.

WJ was on the more slow and gentle side. When John came to town things got really jazzed up with energy from his charisma. The messages that WJ delivered were not chopped liver so to speak - they Biblical based. But when John came it was like the circus had come to town - new and excited shows to see.

I grieve that "we" as a church in Washington allowed the son so much rope. I would guess that our parents had so much respect for the old man Stevens that it was hard to think of John the son as anything else but good and honest Shepard.

John kicked over the traces of Christian churches. The parishes had every right to say they did not want the pastor to stray from the doctrine of the church they were members of. Who knows what improprieties John did besides introduce foreign doctrine?

I do recall vividly that he seemed to hit on women ( terms I would use today.)

My mother was quite attractive - until she "let her self go "*. She dressed professionally and wore lip stick. JRS really hit on her- pissed her off and she left the church a sort time later. * some of the women were jealous of her about the heads she turned. JRS spoke that if you have anything against anyone to go to them to confess your sin - this was done right them and there in the service. Women flocked to my mother to tell her they were jealous she got to wear lipstick and she was pretty or that she had a job our side of home.

These poor women I'm sure could see how jrs googled eyed my mom. ( I was kid and I could see it.) My mom had been in the military in WWII she took no crap- rejected jrs and then left the church.

My dad was always oblivious and did not get my mom's tirade...it was scary to see as a kid...the truth is - my mother stood up to JRS. His womanizing in my moms case cased division for a while in the church among the women - good women who would not have deliberately hurt anyone's feelings - except jrs started it - I'm convinced.

My mother did come back to the church at times but she stopped dressing profession - ashamed she caused others "to sin." Then again, she walked in on a number of problems that did NOT involved WJ. WJ was very patient with my mother.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote

> NancyB wrote:
> It is increasingly more clear that tlw collected
> all kind of data on us but not as sophisticated in
> the early days as is possible with computers.
> Watch the key words you use - it is easy to do a
> search engine search for even a not so expert to
> find out a lot about you and know how to target
> anyone as a victim.
>
> changedagain wrote:
> Following John's death, I recall Marilyn admitting
> such on one of those restricted tapes that were
> required listening for some of us. She basically
> threatened those in TLW who were leaving the
> fellowship, letting them know she had sensitive
> info on many of them, and wouldn't hesitate using
> it should they speak out about her and/or the
> inner circle.
>

>
> And yet again, this sounds more and more like
> strong arm Scientology tactics. I recommend
> watching The Path on Hulu if you haven't yet.
>
> I ask again, whose Kingdom was being built with
> our money and free labor? NancyB and changed, we
> were definitely not told the truth about that. No
> Christ's Kingdom to be found.


More on comparing WJ to JRS.
You know that LA is a universe different from Washington, Iowa. WJ had studied under Aimee Semple MacPhaerson with JRS under foot out in LA.

WJ remained a humble pastor called to preach the gospel.

John however resented having to help his dad carry blocks of ice to make a living- complained that he had a permanent shoulder droop form it ( It was the DEPRESSION - people were grateful for work!)

From listening to John when I was young I remember him talking about the big evangelists he admired. I don't recall WJ doing so. I think jrs was enamored by the charismatic spotlight of Aimee; wiggleworth etc...did not affect WJ

As you know LA is home to so many big cults and new age ideas. It is a different life style from Iowa. JRS seemed to really relish that life style. I think that he aspired to be in the spot light but CA had a lot of "competition"...He had the Iowa connections that included a loving group of credible people who trusted him because of the father WJ.

the corn fields of Iowa was a cheaper with more Christian credibility - a place to hide anyone and anything - like the walk was never Christian. WJ and his congregation were duped. We were used as a credible front for the kingdom of jrs.

I was not there ( we got sent to ILL) but I will guess that WJ put his foot down on the false non- biblical teaching...jrs reacts by claiming persecution.

Emotion sells. We the people were promised to have an exclusive portion in the kingdom - we did not want to miss out. JRS was the squeaking farris wheel attraction dressed as an angel of light. WJ was simple Christian pastor trying to care for his sheep.

Was WJ perfect? probably not.

Exactly!

Confess your secrets - vulnerable to emotional black mail in exchange for your dream

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> p.s. it appears Hargrave has 'moved on' and is
> now attempting to become an established
> international ministry. Not a bad tactic--when you
> fail miserably on one level, instead of
> retreating, pursue something much greater.
> "Leaving this realm, to move into another"...
> Wasn't there a walk song about this?


Worked for Trump.

paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Washington IA chuch was well known for being
> uptight and legalistic. Timothy, JRS would not
> have treated you like that. I'm fairly sure of
> that, 'cuz there were plenty of us "screw-ups" in
> the CA churches that he loved and accepted. Most
> of the Shiloh folks hated going to services in
> Washington. I am sorry you got treated so badly.
> Did your sweetie walk away with you?
>
> As I recall Eva Bickhart was Martha Steven's
> sister. I seem to recall that she was labeled a
> "neph" along with Martha at some point in time.

er-uh, I guess I am uptight and legalistic- I grew up in Christian Tabernacle. Washington, Iowa

BTW Eva Bickhart is one of John Stevens sisters not Martha's. Martha's sister was Mary Williams.

TheJewel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > p.s. it appears Hargrave has 'moved on' and is
> > now attempting to become an established
> > international ministry. Not a bad tactic--when
> you
> > fail miserably on one level, instead of
> > retreating, pursue something much greater.
> > "Leaving this realm, to move into another"...
> > Wasn't there a walk song about this?

> Worked for Trump.

Great men think alike ;)