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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: larry bobo ()
Date: May 16, 2019 02:55AM

At the time of John’s death, the upward flow had already started. As Gary and Marilyn took control of the organization, the level of control and focus on them increased dramatically. There were a few members of the third generation that had referred to John as “Christ in the Flesh”, but to most, he was the “Door Opener Apostle” and Marilyn was "The Lamp of Israel". I believe in most local churches, Marilyn’s name was substituted for God’s in worship songs – while Gary was married to her. Many remember the service where leaders were asked to pledge their allegiance to and spiritually marry Marilyn - quite weird! You can’t have a higher position than to want to be worshiped as God. For Gary to try and distance himself from the hierarchy is ludicrous. He controls everything and yet seems to not want to take responsibility for anything.

Anyone who has ever served on a church corporation knows you served only as a figurehead. Gary and Marilyn made all the decisions. The last corporation I served on in Palmer Lake had in its Bylaws that if there was disagreement among the Board, the Apostolic Fathering Ministry – Gary and Marilyn – had the final say. You were basically on the corporation to do the legwork, but really had no say in anything of significance. The local church leadership reported to Apco weekly, and they in turn reported to Gary and Marilyn. I was removed several times from positions in the church for questioning things that have now come out in the open and everyone can see they needed to be questioned – e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979, shepherding and designated relationships, false words from God, failed prophesies, and the cover up of sexual relationships between pastors and congregants – including John.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: May 16, 2019 03:10AM

larry bobo Wrote:

You can’t have a higher position than to want to be worshiped as God. For Gary to try and distance himself from the hierarchy is ludicrous. He controls everything and yet seems to not want to take responsibility for anything.

Exactly

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Ohman? ()
Date: May 16, 2019 05:15AM

changedagain Wrote

> So I'm assuming those who are 'moving on' in
> Brazil have completely cut off ties with Gary
> Hargrave, right? There has been no one in the
> fellowship since John's death that has been more
> responsible for the enforced micromanaging of
> people's lives than Gary and (of course) his now
> deceased ex-wife Marilyn Hargrave. It concerns me
> that this document doesn't specifically make this
> clear, one way or another. If the Brazil
> fellowship retains a relationship with Gary, I
> personally consider this document meaningless.
> However, if there is an uncompromising severance
> from his influence, I applaud the Brazilians for
> taking a bold and necessary step into a real 'new
> day.'

I agree.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: May 16, 2019 09:58AM

larry bobo Wrote:

> Anyone who has ever served on a church corporation
> knows you served only as a figurehead. Gary and
> Marilyn made all the decisions. The last
> corporation I served on in Palmer Lake had in its
> Bylaws that if there was disagreement among the
> Board, the Apostolic Fathering Ministry – Gary and
> Marilyn – had the final say.

Gary and Marilyn each considered themselves apostolic fathering ministries. I recall asking Marilyn at our first corporate meeting if that was so, and she replied yes. She didn't seem happy I asked that question, so I remained silent during the rest of the meeting. I suppose I was feeling a little insecure (satanic).

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: May 16, 2019 12:26PM

Here is something interesting from CULTS IN OUR MIDST by Margaret Thaler Singer, chapter 12 on Recovery:

[culteducation.com]

Learning to Trust Again

"Regaining your sense of trust will grow partly out of the gradual awakening of your ability to tolerate thinking about and discussing the abuse and betrayal you experienced. Members' massive anger over injustices and abuses is kept hidden in the cult. This anger surfaces in ex-members, along with anger over the dishonesty and deceptions that had to be ignored or the facts that weren't known until the individuals left the group."

I would add that dealing with this anger and sense of betrayal is an intensely personal process for each survivor. In setting arbitrary standards about when "everybody" should "move on", healing could very well be short-circuited and injuries compounded.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 12:51PM by Reepicheep.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: puddington ()
Date: May 16, 2019 01:11PM

Everybody is wired differently and each of us experienced different aspects of abuse. Let no one tell you to “move on” or “get over it”. Everyone’s time tables for healing are different.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 01:13PM by puddington.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Onion ()
Date: May 16, 2019 02:38PM

As I read the last several posts I was kind of jumping and yelling amen but silently in my own brain/heart.

In 1992 every corporation filed Restated Articles of Incorporation that placed each and every one of the TLWF churches directly under the oversight of the ApCo with final control in the hands of the Ap Fathering Mry - G&M. The Boards had NO authority to do anything even as small as changing the members of the board. So if someone moved away or left the church, ApCo had to give permission in writing for the Board to have the authority to make a change.

As of 1992 the local churches had NO further ability to act independently from written permission from ApCo/G&M.

G&M established HFM as the corporation housing the AFM (Apostolic Fathering Ministry) and those on that Board were their family members or those they knew they could completely control and that is how it stands today under its new name, Hargrave Ministries.

Any remarks made at any time by Gary Hargrave are admissable in court as an exception to the hearsay rule under an "admission against interests." When someone makes a remark that is unfavorable to themselves, the remark is considered reliable enough that the court will admit it as NOT being hearsay, no matter who testifies that the statement was made.

NO ONE can look at the Restated Articles from 1992 and public statements made by Gary Hargrave in 2018 and before, and not see that Gary could only have been naming himself as the source for the systemic abuse in the churches. He and Marilyn and them alone, ran everything and profited from it all.

PLEASE! Don't anyone believe that Gary was an innocent. And please don't believe that Rick Holbrook was the only sexual abuser. There is a list of sexual abusers. There is a longer list of extremely harsh emotional and spiritual abusers each of whom acted at the specific direction of Marilyn Hargrave and Gary Hargrave.

I know from specific conversations with Marilyn and Gary prior to 2018 that they knew Rick Holbrook was at risk of going to prison. I didn't know the details or what they were referring to until 2018 and the full extent continues to be exposed.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: May 17, 2019 10:43PM

Quote
larry bobo
I believe in most local churches, Marilyn’s name was substituted for God’s in worship songs – while Gary was married to her. Many remember the service where leaders were asked to pledge their allegiance to and spiritually marry Marilyn - quite weird! You can’t have a higher position than to want to be worshiped as God. For Gary to try and distance himself from the hierarchy is ludicrous. He controls everything and yet seems to not want to take responsibility for anything.

Anyone who has ever served on a church corporation knows you served only as a figurehead. Gary and Marilyn made all the decisions.

Under Gary and Marilyn, the absolute control of churches and congregants skyrocketed, both legally and in essence. I also remember pastors having us substitute Marilyn's name for "the Lord" in worship. Although deep down, people may have been shocked by this, to disagree publicly or even privately to a shepherd would have amounted to spiritual suicide. They had the power to tear from a person everything they held dear; children, family, friends, community and sense of belonging. Those who disagreed would have feigned agreement in order to avoid losing their entire world.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: tryingtohelp ()
Date: May 18, 2019 02:43AM

I have rarely ever posted because I am not someone that has been in this cult but I do have family members that were. I am thankful that Truth has come out about the real operation of this group. I was involved myself with another cult in my past so I was very concerned about the things I could see that were similar to it. I really just wanted to share 3 ways that I was able to overcome distrust in church. All 3 have to do with knowing God's word better because I know Him more. After all, church and his body are there for that reason. 1. Free sermons at Northcoastchurch.com, the teaching is so easy to learn from and listen to, 2. A daily devotional at first15.org, and lastly a short 5 min. Or less text audio visual devotional by texting the word Daily to 51400. North Coast is where I landed, goes through books verse by verse. Right now it's the book of Mark, called Jesus man or myth. You will get a fresh look at who the Bible says Jesus is. I hope for some of you who long to have healing will use these helpful tools. I am praying all of you find your way healing in Jesus. Sent with love and understanding that all you've all gone through is very difficult and emotionally draining.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Onion ()
Date: May 18, 2019 04:37AM

Tryingtohelp: Thank you for your kind thoughts and this information.

It seems we are in another surge of people wishing we would just shut up and move on. I have worried that my family will see my involvement in exposing the truth about TLWF as just another expression of the obsession with the church/cult that took me away from them for most of my life. But I see an end in sight. I see some sunshine at the end of this dark tunnel.

We aren't quite there yet. Reading from sources scientific, psychological and religious tells me that our talking about the harm we suffered is extremely important to our continued recovery. So we must continue to speak at least for now.

Several of us are still pursuing justice and I am seeing positive indications for legal redress in several areas. If the perpetrators of abuse think they got away with anything, they will be awakened to a new truth on the subject of justice for the abused -- soon, I hope.

I continue to urge everyone who has what he or she believes is a viable legal case to pursue it and not rely on other people to do so. We haven't failed. We aren't finished. Keep letting your voices be heard.

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