Gary Hargrave's tentacles definitely seem to be reaching out beyond the shores of the U.S. A group of his loyals and officers/directors of Hargrave Ministries are in Poland as part of a tour of concentration camps etc., conducted jointly by the Shlomo's Jerusalem Center and Shiloh U - Bruce Larson, Lisa Runquist, etc. Any loyalty questions?

I still hear surprising information on almost a daily basis. I learned recently that there was a concentrated push to end a relationship with JRS in the churches, starting in the 90's. People were told that JRS was the old and the word now was from G&M and even sometimes just M. We know a lot now about the trickery used by JRS and his plagiarism, etc., but what could G&M have hoped to gain by negating JRS' legacy. They never held a candle to JRS in any area including the wisdom of deception and use of the word. Gary wholly lacks in charisma. G&M certainly never pretended to have loving kindness towards the people.

When your arrogance and sense of entitlement overruns any speck of common sense, it's time to hang up your "uniform." But apparently many of the leaders who "stepped down" are still waiting angrily behind the scenes for all the bad guys (us) to go away so they can retake their positions in the churches.

More examples of arrogance gone wild without a lick of sense.

There is no question JRS hid sexual misconduct and assault (his own and many, many others). For example, Harold Williams was apparently known to be a serial rapist in the U.S. before he was transferred to Brazil where he could continue his penis party and rape everyone in the churches financially. JRS routinely arranged marriages so men who had problems with sexual proclivities could be with a sexy wife who would certainly cure the problem. He arranged marriages for homosexual men to straight women, he sent rapists to L.A. (and yes, to visit the Blix House without warning us) in order to find him a wife. There is quite a long list. All disastrous. (Caveat: Some marriages/relationships suggested turned out great which is a credit to the people, not to JRS or G&M.)

At this point it seems easier to identify who did not abuse people sexually in the church. TLW was a hot bed of abuse. Shiloh too. Hawaii. And Brazil. G&M loved Brazil so much but there was so much abuse occurring there even by leaders we thought were so great. Mean wives and sexually abusive husbands. Large and in charge. And praised loudly by G&M. Makes you wonder ...

I need to clarify something about Bob McClane - or as he was called in my family "Bobby McClane."

Bob McClane did NOT commit suicide. He died of a heart attack in the VA hospital.

The only time suicide was associated with Bob's death was in the loud and nasty rant of Gary Hargrave who said it was suicide because of Bob's poor health habits. It was cruel and unnecessary and very wrong, especially if it misled anyone to think Bob committed suicide or that he was not committed to his kids.

Onion Wrote:

> Bob McClane did NOT commit suicide. He died of a
> heart attack in the VA hospital.
>
> The only time suicide was associated with Bob's
> death was in the loud and nasty rant of Gary
> Hargrave who said it was suicide because of Bob's
> poor health habits.

I also remember him saying Bob's so-called friends were not looking after him. It was during a Sunday morning Valley service after Gary made the announcement that Bob had died. When I spent time with Bob during his last few years (we were both members of the South Gate church) his main complaint to me, aside from his dire financial situation, was his feeling of being abandoned by G & M.
So when the offering was taken for Bob's family at the memorial service and then afterwards (according to the poster 'Invisible') redirected to the Apostolic travel fund because "that is what Bob would have wanted"...the Bob I knew would not have wanted that. The only thing that reliably lifted Bob's attitude was when he talked about his kids. It was what seemed to keep him going until the end.

p.s. Bob liked my sense of humor, too. He was one of the few people in the fellowship that did not believe it originated from Satan :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2019 08:09AM by changedagain.

Reep - your insights about the leaders' feelings and teachings about death and illness are spot on. We certainly experienced this and it was one of the big eye openers for us that finally caused us to leave. So, so broken!!

Reep

That was an excellent synopsis of the view of death in the "Walk". It is cruel and heartless and strips people of their last moments of humanity.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> p.s. Bob liked my sense of humor, too. He was one
> of the few people in the fellowship that did not
> believe it originated from Satan :)


I like your sense of humor too. I am certain it didn't come from Satan. It saved my ass more than once. Do you realize we didn't even have 200,000 in February of 2016?--I think that was when you started counting--correct me if I am wrong. Getting close to a million yes?

Cloudwatcher Wrote:

> I like your sense of humor too. I am certain it
> didn't come from Satan. It saved my ass more than
> once.

Thanks, Cloudwatcher

> Do you realize we didn't even have 200,000
> in February of 2016?--I think that was when you
> started counting--correct me if I am wrong.
> Getting close to a million yes?

Yes, the page views for this discussion group are now 1,006,492. It surpassed the million mark over the weekend during the most recent blowup.
No need to manufacture drama here...it seems to be inherent in the territory.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2019 10:12PM by changedagain.

It is now 1,006,498
I'll be checking again in a few minutes and provide another update. I take this role very seriously.

O.K.--it's now 1,006,504
This will probably be my last page views update for today...unless the numbers go down. That's unlikely to happen, but if they do, I feel it is my responsibility to let everyone know.