P.S. I misquoted JRS in my post above. It was "I had sought to kill you for your withdrawal." Those words terrified all of us needlessly.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Changedagain,

> Thank you for re-sharing Sierra Dawn's post. Her
> story about her mom is tragic. It is probably one
> of the stories that bothers people the most and is
> remembered years after first reading her account.
> Sierra Dawn, if you still read here, know that
> much good has come from you bravely sharing.

Yes

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I misquoted JRS in my post above. It was "I
> had sought to kill you for your withdrawal."

I hate to disagree with "God," assuming He was the one who spoke that to him...but if John had remained in withdrawal, it would have spared so many people needless misery. In certain cases, withdrawal might be the best thing you can do for humanity.
First do no harm.

TLWF take:
"Do harm, and just call it God's discipline. People won't know the difference."

Sierra Dawn's post is so powerful and will always be. I agree with Reep, I hope Sierra knows that her heart wrenching post has reached many many people.

There is a factor I would add to Sierra's post. One of the women in the church (who is now thankfully out) asked Gilee Larson if she could go over and help Ann and the answer was no - because it would distract this woman's focus from Marilyn.

Also, there were people living in the home with Ann who were still members of the church and who were told not to relate to her. So when Ann was so sick and needed a helping hand, she was ignored.

Unimaginable cruelty.

Yet Jesus had said feeding, clothing, helping even the least of the people was the same as doing it for Him.

How did these people justify their cruelty? Maybe they intended to be the opposite of Christ all along. If that was their goal, at least they succeeded at something.

Posted by: Altar_Kent ()
Date: February 23, 2004 12:18AM

Is anyone familiar with this movement? It is based in Kalona Iowa at a camp/compound called Shiloh. IT is primarily located in the United states, but also has churches in Brazil and japan. It was founded by John Robert Stevens and first called the walk. Stevens came out of the Latter Rain movement, built quite a congregation, and then died in 1983. The Living word Fellowship is currently being run by Gary and Marilyn Hargrave.

Hi Altar,
I meant to respond to you 15 years ago when you first asked this question. Yes, I am familiar with it. And not just me, but many other people. In fact, there has 8784 comments about it since your initial post. Anyway, sorry for not getting back to you sooner. God has kept me really busy. Hope you're doing well!
-Changed



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2019 10:27AM by changedagain.

Just caught up on the last few pages . . .

> Reepicheep Wrote:
>
"Hey, God forgave David, why can't you let
> this go? God can't bless you if you're not
> forgiving" I have no idea how Rick became
> conflated with this storied biblical figure, but I
> suppose that is beside the point. Perhaps if I
> read scripture more often I would be familiar with
> the verse about David & his shiny red golf cart
> going into battle.

Those folks saying that neglect to mention that God didn’t forgive David. He killed his firstborn and told him the future of his heirs would forever be plagued by that action. But that’s par for he course and I’m convinced that the idiots in charge don’t read their Bibles and are luckily blessed with loyal congregants who don’t either.

I know many lament the seeming lack of justice concerning some things in the fellowship, but it’s coming and God help the people who stand in its way.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion, the communal
> home model has done much to perpetuate a
> controlling and rigid atmosphere over several
> generations. Any thoughts?

As bad as things were for me I keep thinking that I must have missed the worst of it. I lived in three communal homes as a younger man: the first in the Valley, the second in Ventura and the third in the Mason House in Santa Barbara I helped refurbish.

I snuck out of the one in the Valley in the middle of the night after a few months. I was in charge at 19 years old, and got sick of paying rent for five other people who never could seem to keep a job, and policing the marijuana grows in bedroom window.

Ventura and the Mason house were good experiences and there was only one crazy who was later committed. We kept catching him spooning down entire jars of mayonnaise, which was a little weird, but otherwise harmless.

I got married moved into a new kind of communal home. One where my wife is in charge and who keeps me towing the line. Strangely, I find myself still supporting everyone in this new communal home and after 42 years haven’t managed to sneak out. The doors are watched. Send help!

I think that I may have escaped the worst of communal homes because I never worked for a Kingdom Business and always had a job, so finances, or lack thereof, never limited my options. And, as many who know me know, I was never shy about calling out ridiculous notions and would only submit to what I believed and not what some “authority” told me I had to believe. Some I called out publicly. At the end, that didn’t work out well but I stood my ground. For most of my tenure I was in places where I was the authority, and if not, a powerful influencer.

I regret that I was never able to stop the train wreck after John passed, but people in those places at the end could not or would not hear, but I did warn the Hargreaves in a letter that if they didn’t do something that they “may as well take a shovel and bury the church in South Gate.” Palmer Lake was another slow motion horror show, and there I again warned the Hargraves that they were again facing a disaster because of the behavior of their lead pastors — the Sayers.

The Hargraves and other leaders were never particularly good at taking criticism or changing anything and that sad affliction has and will be their downfall. I think that all of these “Christs in the flesh” forget that God isn’t on their side and isn’t intimidated by their lofty claims of spiritual authority.

This is my final post on this or any forum concerning TLWF.

I have deactivated my other social media accounts. I am ending the blog site, and ending any activity here. I know some faced abuse at the hands of TLWF, but I also find too many “victims” too willing to attack anyone who doesn’t share their particular perspective.

I tolerated a lot in the fellowship, but there is no justification for what I have experienced on social media over the past couple of days. I have to wonder what people learned by what they went through. Some it seems have lost the ability to be civil and comfort themselves as they magnify offenses and lash out. I know that this site is not Facebook, but many who post here under various names also post there.

I won’t associate with it any longer.

Best to all of you who I know and who can disagree respectfully.

@Moderator: I can find no way on this site to terminate an account. I would appreciate it if that were done to this account. I have no further interest in this forum or this site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2019 08:37PM by Amos.

Amos:
"I tolerated a lot in the fellowship, but there is no justification for what I have experienced on social media over the past couple of days. I have to wonder what people learned by what they went through. Some it seems have lost the ability to be civil and comfort themselves as they magnify offenses and lash out. I know that this site is not Facebook, but many who post here under various names also post there.
I won’t associate with it any longer.
Best to all of you who I know and who can disagree respectfully."

I was not involved with whatever was going down on FB, but limiting exposure to social media, or removing your involvement altogether, is probably not an unwise move. If you decide to return here on occasion...assuming the forum continues on...I won't be an obstacle. And good luck with the yacht thing. I never really got onboard with your plans, but I didn't stifle it either :)

p.s. this forum's page views surpassed the one million mark over the weekend. Intermittent flame-wars and all, we've had a good run, and it has been an outlet for many people to express viewpoints that would be completely suppressed within TLWF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2019 10:45PM by changedagain.