Ok, fine, we'll all be merries. I had a bad day. But I just have one question: who is Robin Hood? And I absolutely will not be Maid Marion. That's where I draw the line. ;)

Pretty boy-
Please, before you sign off. Whatever became of Alphonso? Mr.Honeybutt?

Ohman? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty boy-
> Please, before you sign off. Whatever became of
> Alphonso? Mr.Honeybutt?

Yes, this needs to be answered!

932,000+ page views. This number should surge in the coming days, as people seek the answer to the above question.

Quote
Onion
This is interesting.....

[www.christianpost.com]

EFCA sounds like an organization we should have sniffing around.

Interesting article, Onion. Here's another article about the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability:
[en.m.wikipedia.org]

It seems to be a watchdog organization for nonprofit evangelical churches and charities. Those joining must submit to financial scrutiny in order to remain members in good standing.

Unfortunately, there were no outside financial checks or balances in TLWF, only the Annual Shepherd's Report. The ASR kept church members busy counting paperclips every year while never having access to important info like Apostolic Fathering Ministries' salaries or APCO travel fund totals and uses. Then there was the Shiloh Amphitheater and Senior Living Facility. Oh, wait, the Senior Living Facility just kind of vanished into thin air with no explanation. But not to worry, they are spending that or other monies to build a Disneyland style cemetery for the people they failed to care for while they were still living.

I just learned that employees of the TLWF churches as far back as 2011, were paid $60k per year and carried "company credit cards." If anyone who worked in the accounting or money management areas had the gall/balls to tell someone that a charge for a $200 bottle of wine was likely a luxury item and not a business expense, was quickly shown the door. When both spouses worked for say, ApCo then they each got $60k plus all the perks mismanagement of funds could afford.

The salaries may have increased since 2011.

Financial transparency existed far less than I ever realized. And thru these years, children and young adults spent their summers working their asses off, volunteers had to neglect their own needs, their family and their homes to do work including the cleaning of ministries' private residences. Back when I was getting paid the most I ever got was about $900 a month (not even minimum wage) and it was paid as parsonage because the church (TLW) didn't want to pay taxes or social security. That was a long time ago but it would sure be interesting to see the salaries paid thru the years and then compare those sums with "the little people" who received some sort of pay. The credit card records would be very, very interesting.

While on the topic, P-Boy, how much do you pay your chauffeur Alphonso Honeybutt? ;-)

My five years in Shiloh, I was paid $80 a month. I was considered "full" time because I worked year round. Those that came in to work during the summer got $40 a month and were considered "part" time even though all of us worked many more hours than 40 hours a week.

The big plus .... I didn't file taxes for years because I didn't make enough to file. Also, when I left the walk and went to school, they threw grant money at because I had lived so far below the poverty level. Silver lining. NOT!

Onion - after helping get TLWF's Accounting Manual out, I somehow got roped into doing the auditing (with another person), each churches' annual financial statements. I can so clearly remember being on a phone call with a husband and wife shepherding team in LA years ago. I saw several examples of expenditure items that didn't seem in line with the church's "mission statement" (I use that term loosely). When I questioned them, they put up a bit of a fight about answering. At some point during the call, one of the local overseers that monitored the annual reporting walked into the office and said that I needed to back off on my questions - i.e., stop asking any, and leave it alone. So much for objective accountability.

the exposure of the ruse continues on the steam rolling express of the merries. red flag, onion and others continue their assault/exposure/misgivings on the lw hierarchy, past and present, and we all should be quite thankful and comfortable with their historical perspectives. what have they to gain, personally, from their respective accounts? perhaps, some sense of absolution but certainly, and far greater, to right the wrongs, to shine the light of truth on the darkness of the false, and maybe most importantly (at least to me, on the outside looking in) a roadmap to those individuals and churches still tethered to the lw how to break free which i suggest they must do, singulraly and collectively.

it is needless for me to exhort the merries to keep posting; it's a given they will (and screw making the one million mark, it is merely an arbitrary and inconsequential number). what is not inconsequential are the posts; past, present and future. the people who have left lw out of a commitment to moral and christian edicts, i suggest, vastly outnumbers those who still remain, irrespective of those who have died.

i engage the presumption that a large number of "hanger-ons" follow the posts on this forum; the silent listeners, listening but too constrained, out of fear, yes fear (is not that not one of the essential elements that cults employ?), to let other "hanger-ons that they "listen to this forum's - geez, how apostate for one hanger-on to admit to another hanger-on that they follow this forum' posts? well, to the hanger-on willing to have the courage to so do, admit to another hanger-on, "this is what i have read on this forum, what do you think". and then another hanger-on says, "well, what does our supreme leader hargrave have to say?" and then the collective group of hanger-ons are tongue-tied and say "well, he's kind of quiet these days (unbeknownst to them, supreme leader hargrave is trying to secure as much of his earthly jollies and escape with them prior to the shit hits the fan; again, unbeknownst to them or maybe, they are just too cowardly to want to know what already they suspect).

gary hargrave, where are you? you most likely follow these posts. i doubt that you do not. but you fail to respond. why? i'll put my words in your mouth "the fear of power has no hold here and i am fearful of engaging in a forum in which i am absent of that power". to the hanger-ons, i just invited the supreme leader hargrave to make his case, here and now, to an audience of many.

and he has the opportunity now to do so; will he do so? probably not - after all, a pretty hostile audience but also the hanger-ons looking for a clue on how carry on.

do it for them, gary. slam the merries for their "untruths about you", lambaste me for my pottymouth diatribes aimed at you and stand up for yourself and those that still align their moral compass with you.

time for your voice; the merries long to hear it, the "hanger-ons" need it.

should you choose to not respond to this request, where do you leave those still aligned with you? oblivion, absolute oblivion and no sense of direction or any sense of a moral compass. do you care about them? given your history, almost certainly not. i challenge you, mr. hargrave, to prove me wrong.

to the "hanger-ons", should hargrave choose to not respond to my request to engage this community in a sincere and honest dialogue, what is left for you to hang on to?