Yes John and Debbie Grill now reside in Brazil.

fool me twice Wrote:
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> Yes John and Debbie Grill now reside in Brazil.

O.K.--thanks for responding fool me twice.

fool me twice Wrote:

> I also wish to report something I heard from a
> good source about the current leadership stating
> this last week.
> Some of the 'new leadership' is still publicly
> y stating that everything you read online is
> poison. I guess it's just me however I think the
> first time I heard that must have been about 1965
> from JRS. Of course nothing was online then but
> the story line here is unchanged. It has always
> been, and it so looks like it will always be the
> position of the 'Leadership' to tell everyone that
> if 'they' have left us, blown out, gone, no longer
> here, sleeping in the back row, etc. then
> everything 'those people' have to say can not be
> trusted. Honestly when will enough be enough. If
> one person tells a story, yes, it might not be
> true. If twenty people say that same thing then, I
> am sorry but, I think it's long past time to start
> listening. Sorry to rant however at some point it
> might be a good idea for someone in a leadership
> role to say in all honesty we might want to listen
> to at least a few of 'those people'. Until then,
> we HEAL together and LOVE the new day"

Yes

" heal together and love the new day", that is what this forum has provided and methinks, for all those that post, that there are a vast many more that are attending to your voices but remain silent but do listen. and perhaps those most hurt will come to terms of how to turn. did not hargraves suggest that each church will be able to determine their own course? so why not do it? each congregation fight it out among themselves to determine their allegiance. allegiance to a demagogue, completely averse to the dictates of their acclaimed faith or an acknowledgement of the moral, ethical and spiritual demands of one's christian faith? perhaps the posit is a false dichotomy, perhaps not at all. should it not be that the demands of one's faith completely mirror the most obvious truths of that faith? is not many of the central tenets of the christian faith is the embracing of truth, of honesty, of disinvestment of worldly goods, of humility and caring about others as you care about yourself? life has brought to my becoming an agnostic at this point in my life but the central tenets of the christian life which i just posed have never left me but rather have informed me every step of my life and i need give credit that a large part of that "informing" was due to my involvement in the lw church. i understand steinback's "east of eden", etc. better.

i digress - illuminate me, where does hargrave demonstrate those central tenets - embracing of truth, honesty, humility, divestment of worldly goods (hah, what a laugh and some of you contributed to a frigging, expensive table for marilyn, the queen of gods), caring about others!!!!!!!!? what i am i missing here? what is wrong with this picture? i, an unprofessing christian, a deplorable agnostic embraces these near timeless truths, these wonderful precepts on how to live a moral and ethical life, which i supremely wish to do and surprisingly do so to a far greater extent, i believe, than hargrave does. hargrave writes books about the faith and i, have left that faith. ironically, that faith and its tenets beat inside my moral heart every day and i do so relish that my life was graced with the instructions of that faith. i believe that i, an agnostic but much influenced by christian tenets, am vastly more christian than gary hargrave. i do not build up treasures on earth on the back of tithes, i have never protected sexual abusers, i never would had dumped a wife and children in exchange for the allure of a whore of babylon (sorry, she is not the mother of god or the kingdom) and the potential riches to be reaped (which apparently they have been) by duping a buttload of the trusting and unsuspecting.

to those trusting who read this and other posts on this forum, you can no longer be unsuspecting. it is all "out there, out here" for you. and it is for you to alert others about this forum and then for them to make their own decision/s. i hope congregants of lw to divest of their association with the lw, form your own congregation and if your "leaders" are in objection, then throw them to the cesspool (i was going to say "to the wolves", but they are too beautiful of creatures to be associated with hargrave, minions and hanger-ons). it is not about the past, it is about the integrity of own's soul in the here and now

Prettyboy Wrote:
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> i digress - illuminate me, where does hargrave
> demonstrate those central tenets - embracing of
> truth, honesty, humility, divestment of worldly
> goods (hah, what a laugh and some of you
> contributed to a frigging, expensive table for
> marilyn, the queen of gods), caring about
> others!!!!!!!!? what i am i missing here?

Nothing. The conditioning to support him within those who spent most of their lives in TLWF runs deep. I suspect many of them will go to their graves convinced he is a man of God, and has done nothing to deserve the criticism he has received. They will view the victims of his misdeeds/gross negligence as liars...and respect him even more for weathering the 'persecution.'
It's an alternate reality, not based on facts...but it's potent, because it's rooted in a determination to believe what you want/need to believe. Facing the fact you've been duped by impostors all these years is just too devastating.
I recall back on Factnet when various people still holding on to John's word would claim that his death to cancer was a result of people's disobedience, lack of faith, lack of violent prayer--whatever. They weren't going to budge, and they probably still aren't...assuming they're still alive.
Anyway, have a great day!
(trying to finish my posts on a positive note)

p.s. I've decided to stop posting negative comments about the Popular People's Front of Judea. I just found out yesterday they don't exist. Sorry if I led anyone astray.

Changedagain wrote:
p.s. I've decided to stop posting negative comments about the Popular People's Front of Judea. I just found out yesterday they don't exist. Sorry if I led anyone astray.

How can you be sure they don't exist? As far as I can tell the TLWF didn't exist, in so much as they told us they were something they in no way, shape or form, actually were. Am I wrong? And to quote an idiot I won't name, is it a negative comment if its true? Just sayin!

Quote
changedagain
I recall back on Factnet when various people still holding on to John's word would claim that his death to cancer was a result of people's disobedience, lack of faith, lack of violent prayer--whatever. They weren't going to budge, and they probably still aren't...assuming they're still alive.

I've been watching "Ministry of Evil" about Tony and Susan Alamo. When Susan died from cancer, Tony reportedly blamed the members of his group because they didn't fast and pray enough, believe enough, etc. You can't make this sh*t up. I recommend the show.

Susan's body lay in state for a long time while the faithful believed for her to be resurrected. I don't think that she was purported to have taken Satan down, though. Small differences...

[www.wsj.com]

fool me twice Wrote:
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> Changedagain wrote:
> p.s. I've decided to stop posting negative
> comments about the Popular People's Front of
> Judea. I just found out yesterday they don't
> exist. Sorry if I led anyone astray.
>
> How can you be sure they don't exist? As far as I
> can tell the TLWF didn't exist, in so much as they
> told us they were something they in no way, shape
> or form, actually were. Am I wrong? And to quote
> an idiot I won't name, is it a negative comment if
> its true? Just sayin!

good point

fool me twice Wrote:

> How can you be sure they don't exist? As far as I
> can tell the TLWF didn't exist, in so much as they
> told us they were something they in no way, shape
> or form, actually were.

"A confidence trick is an attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their trust. Confidence tricks exploit characteristics of the human psyche, such as credulity, naïveté, compassion, vanity etc."
-Wikipedia

Leaders (John, Gary, Marilyn) convincing people they represent God, gaining access to every aspect of their lives, and then systematically taking everything of value from them. It's an old con, and they've done it exceptionally well.