Someone wrote a blog article describing how multitudes of young Christians
in the 1970s were vulnerable to recruitment by charismatic leaders.

Amazing testimony from this person and from the many who commented on his article.
He lists the control tactics commonly used.

How to Find out if You are in a cult.

[awildernessvoice.blog]

I have said that when I write on this Forum, I always (unless a fit of disgust, anger, or the heaves has overtaken my usually rational mind) write as if it will be read to or by Gary and/or Rick.

I found out recently that, yes indeedy, Gary monitors us closely. He asked some people (I don't have details) if anyone could think of a way to silence me. This occurred last summer before anything from any of us went public on FaceBook.

I hope to get more information on the context of the statement. Hopefully, it was not said at a gun range.

I also think that Los Angeles churches (CLW, COL, TLW) comprised a very specific and focused cesspool. I'm just trying out this theory - but it seems other locations that may have been involved in dirty deeds were those where quite a bit of money was funneled for various projects, purchases, etc.

CLW, COL, TLW and Shiloh were obvious. So many extremely poor administrative decisions made in those locations sucked funds from everywhere in TLWF. I would still love to see the details of the Trust administered at Shiloh but somehow not registered as required under the State Attorney General's charitable trust registry for any tax-exempt trust formed or administered in Iowa.

But then you also have to look at where big money was sent for real estate purchases and over the top upgrades. Honolulu, Maui, and Grants Pass come to mind. Huge expenditures on behalf of moderately small congregations.

I list these things under ponderings but also I list I am comprising of decisions that were made - I call the list: "What the F---; Why the hell."

Cloudwatcher Wrote:
"I am sorry Richard that you were not able to right the ship--it was impossible back then. But I am so grateful you have lifted the shroud over the mystery for all to see--and they do see. May their cognitive dissonance come to the breaking point. . . . . "

--- While it may be late in coming, it seems that whether it's just fate or a more insightful force that rights all things in the end, Hargrave and like minions do and will still suffer in some personal but unspoken way from their own misdeeds and fraudulent acts. In my experience, it is most certain that even the most despicable have their own private nightmares about discovery and human nature’s fear of retribution in reality or in some ethereal future . . . . It may not replace the satisfaction of a quick and full accounting, or from an open and honest admission of decadence and dishonesty, but nevertheless puts great notice in the public eye and in the private musings of conspirators . . . .

Regards,

Dick
--

Onion wrote:
" . . . I found out recently that, yes indeedy, Gary monitors us closely. He asked some people (I don't have details) if anyone could think of a way to silence me. This occurred last summer before anything from any of us went public on FaceBook.

I hope to get more information on the context of the statement. Hopefully, it was not said at a gun range.
I also think that Los Angeles churches (CLW, COL, TLW) comprised a very specific and focused cesspool. I'm just trying out this theory - but it seems other locations that may have been involved in dirty deeds were those where quite a bit of money was funneled for various projects, purchases, etc. . . ."

Onion, you know, the FBI, upon credible complaint and or personal knowledge of interstate transportation of underaged girls for what may appear for the purpose of prostitution, and or for the illegal laundering of otherwise taxable funds in business between states, that even the hint of such situation has seen the FBI or IRS investigating at some level . . . . there’s more than one way to skin a skunk without suffering the smell . . .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2019 08:45AM by Richard M..

i have been absent from the forum for 10 days or so - ya know, affairs of this life's demands and also, absent from lw/shiloh orthodoxy for over 4 decades, i sensed there was little or nothing more for me to contribute. and tonight, i willed against my will to log in. so here are my thoughts after reading 10 days of posts. i will fail in addressing all or most of the merry posters but this is foremost in the thoughts. first, we all applaud richard, and rightfully so. but what struck me the most, and it is virtually unmentioned, that richard lost a woman, a woman he loved, his wife to a scam; a scam that he understood to be such and failed to convince otherwise. and injury to insult, lost his children. and in reading all of his eloquent posts, i fail to note any sense of bitterness and, in that, i need applaud him as he relives a painful past that given just a little twist (i.e., marilyn never coming across the lw path) how his life and his childrern's and even marilyn's, would have been supremely different.

richard, i am sorry for your loss and your pain; i also embrace you as all merries cannot help but do, as we embrace your candor, eloquence and sincerity. so shine on, you sincere diamond. shine on, shine on and do a dreamlike tango with onion.
respectfully, prettyboy
ps hi red flag and kboy

Gary Hargrave

Rick Holbrook

Marilyn Hargrave

You know, the elements required to prove criminal conspiracy do not require that the crime considered by the conspirators actually be committed.

I have recently heard (second hand of course) of a conspiracy to commit murder initiated by Gary Hargrave back in his Redlands era. No crime was carried out but the shooter was selected and contacted, which would be the act in furtherance of the conspiracy that is a required element of the crime.


As always, just my opinion and my ponderings and no specific allegation made by me. And certainly no legal advice.

This also has my pondering mind wondering if the transportation of underage women for the purpose of illegal sex or pedophilia, would be chargeable as a criminal offense because the travel engineered by the "shepherds" was the act in furtherance, even if some of the people were never "selected" as the perpetrators' prey? There are plenty of stories about the offers made and rejected during all this ugliness and many times it took place at a camp in Iowa, or other "away games." Like the herd of prey dancing behind the Christmas truck.

Let's make friends with the FBI.

Gary Hargrave

Dr. Gary A. Hargrave, Chancellor of Shiloh U

Marilyn (Holbrook Stevens) Hargrave

Richard D. Holbrook or Rick Holbrook

G&M

Interesting googles one and all.

Does anyone have any idea whether the San Diego church has decided to separate themselves from former TLWF leaders...or will it be going back under the control of Gary Hargrave and Bruce Larsen?

I heard second hand, but that originated from a reliable source, that they are looking at a lot of different options for moving forward NOT with any connection to TLWF; or whether they should be absorbed into a different church altogether. I think the people who are trying to keep the influence of Gary Hargrave or Bruce Larson or Gilee Larson alive in the group, are doing so stealthily underground and that it isn't being as successful as apparently, some people think it is.

I also heard from a different source that when Gary Hargrave put out the request for letters when he started the 360 review thing, the volume of letters coming in was unbelievable. A boat-load of letters. Many of them objecting about Rick. This was quite a while before any of us went public on social media.

I hope that is accurate. There are so many people down in San Diego that I admire and really respect and those people do not intend to be part of anything left over from or connect to TLWF so then what's left would be a really sad and sorry bunch that I can't imagine surviving as a church for long.

What I can't understand is, if people want to continue in a TLWF church format, how are they planning on bringing in new people so that there would be enough people to actually keep a church going? Who has a message or enough charisma that anyone wants to listen to them? They were able to keep a few numbers up by virtue of the threats inherent in the teachings of TLWF and based on long years of conditioning.

I don't see a group of vibrant, healthy believers supporting anything that resembles TLWF. People are learning to think for themselves again!