Prettyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you all know about jesus' instruction to forgive
> your enemies. must be supremely tested with
> respect to hargave, holbrook and company,
> especially given, presumably, their walking away
> virtually unscathed with bags of booty while many
> others, such as yourselves, are left with bags of
> bad memories and regrets.

Yes, Hargrave and company always manage to dump guilt on the victims--or at least try to. Placing a requirement of forgiving your enemies (highlighting certain verses in Matt. 18) is just the latest manipulative tactic. The burden, of course, is once again placed on the wounded, while the transgressors refuse to specifically acknowledge their wrongdoing, and the havoc it has wreaked in people's lives. It's not working this time around. Fortunately, there is an immune system developing, with those further down the road in recovery helping the freshly wounded. Guilt-trips are being effectively resisted. People are on the path toward healing. Let it continue.

p.s. A friend of mine pointed out that the same chapter that mentions forgiveness also contains this ominous verse:
Matthew 18:6:
“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
(so much for getting away with exploiting minors)

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prettyboy Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > you all know about jesus' instruction to
> forgive
> > your enemies. must be supremely tested with
> > respect to hargave, holbrook and company,
> > especially given, presumably, their walking
> away
> > virtually unscathed with bags of booty while
> many
> > others, such as yourselves, are left with bags
> of
> > bad memories and regrets.
>
> Yes, Hargrave and company always manage to dump
> guilt on the victims--or at least try to. Placing
> a requirement of forgiving your enemies
> (highlighting certain verses in Matt. 18) is just
> the latest manipulative tactic. The burden, of
> course, is once again placed on the wounded, while
> the transgressors refuse to specifically
> acknowledge their wrongdoing, and the havoc it has
> wreaked in people's lives. It's not working this
> time around. Fortunately, there is an immune
> system developing, with those further down the
> road in recovery helping the freshly wounded.
> Guilt-trips are being effectively resisted. People
> are on the path toward healing. Let it continue.
>
> p.s. A friend of mine pointed out that the same
> chapter that mentions forgiveness also contains
> this ominous verse:
> Matthew 18:6:
> “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those
> who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better
> for them to have a large millstone hung around
> their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the
> sea."
> (so much for getting away with exploiting minors)

Good quote! it's amazing what a difference. it make when you reading the entire text.
It's funny that JRS had pointed out that there is a problem when someone just picks and chooses bits and pieces of scriptures then puts them together. With out the chapter and verse this was his example: " Judas went and hung himself. -and- Go thou and do like-wise."
JRS did have a eyeopening sense of humor that I admired.

Posts by members in the last month have inspired me to wake up at 3 Am to post this note:

I will guess that the peers of my youth know exactly who I am" -the pesky out- spoken younger sister in the Christian Tabernacle Youth. Thanks girls for putting up with me in those years. You all greatly influenced me in such a positive way.

I will also guess that my Warshington baby boomer friends are quietly reading these posts.I will respect that. No matter if you are IN or are OUT there is nothing that will ever change about our history together. We were fortunate to have each other - I think we were spoiled as not many people get to experience what we had in our group.

We did not have much but we have joy for living. Our parents had survived the depression - so they knew that loving community was so valuable.They set a wonderful example.We were an awesome group of young people who set our sites on being Christian girls.We had a unique bond that will never change no matter where we are. Sadly there are only a handful of us still alive.

Life is too short to not take this moment in time to tell you how very much I still love you girls of Christian Tabernacle. My late sister reminded me all the time how annoying I was- I admired you all- so I did my best to be good as you accepted me into the youth group.It was my privilege to be able to study God's word in our church home with you all. You all gave m a sense of "normalcy" and I had fun learning the Bible in a healthy atmosphere back then.

The words I wanted say flowed so much better before I drug my old body out of bed.
I may not be perfect in the way i try to describe what a loving church we grew up in tho' not perfect either. and this whole situation is far from perfect, but, it would be so wrong to miss the opportunity to tell you how much I appreciate you girls for being my friend. You accepted me just as I was back then.

No matter what, I have open arms waiting to hug anyone of you girls that I grew up with. No questions about what side you are on. The unique bond we had in our history together during our formative years will never change. I love you - so let's do lunch on neutral grounds. Let's giggle and pass a few notes under the table the old fashioned way.

Special hugs to the loving lady who was the confident of my first love. Thanks for filling in the gap. I understand your position.

One last thought:Washington is our home and that will never change. God's love for each of us will never change, either. Love you, girls for ever.

NancyBGood



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2019 06:48PM by NancyB.

Onion, I love you for being here and being you.
Thanks for sharing. Feel "different" doesn't it?

CARe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty boy said
> onion, you are a shining gem. your past is passed;
> shine on you crazy diamond (pink floyd/ syd
> barrett), yet you are not crazy but you are a
> diamond and i believe that everyone reading these
> posts absolutely knows this. so shine on, shine on
> and on and on. the years were not wasted because
> those years of living and experiencing what you
> have experienced have brought you to this point in
> time, the absolute of life and living, the
> present. in this present you so shine.
>
> I want to reiterate what pretty boy said to Onion.
> My words are not as eloquent as yours but having
> known Onion for the last 40 years, her shining is
> what helped me see. Thank you Onion for shining
> brightly so I could see.

I 2nd that. Thanks Onion. Big hugs

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay CARe - You better pm me so I don't go nuts
> trying to figure out who you are. Welcome to this
> forum regardless. It's a great place to find
> support and give support. Thanks for your words.
>
> I spent much of the day perusing and pondering...
> I was looking up a book on Anaheim that my good
> friend referred me to called "Rape of the Mind"
> from decades ago about mind control. While in
> that section on Amazon, a kind book/combo of two
> articles popped up called (1) How to Analyze
> People and (2) How to secretly manipulate people.
> I looked at it long enough to see the section
> titles but I couldn't read it because I felt sick.
> The techniques in these little papers would teach
> anyone how to read people in personal ministry and
> how to convince people to follow your every
> direction.
>
> Sections such as: Encourage them to say no then
> yes (Want to buy this Mercedes Benz oh but even
> better here is an affordable little Audi coupe.)
>
> Inspire fear then provide relief.
>
> Use guilt, play the victim.
>
> Use logic to appeal to rational people.
>
> Bribe them.
>
> And under persuasion, we have: Overcome trust
> issues, know your purpose, stay calm and
> confident, manipulate your body language to send a
> message, and then most important - master the art
> of secrecy.
>
> Sound familiar? In my quest to understand how
> certain things were done by JRS, I was looking at
> the transference of energy and various spiritual
> tricks that any of us can learn. In that context,
> there has been a lot of discussion about JRS'
> private library with books on witchcraft (he
> mentioned it himself many times) but that was only
> one section. There were also numerous books on
> human behavior and psychology. "How to make
> friends and influence people" and probably many
> like those I mentioned above.
>
> There was a bag of tricks involved. I sure did
> love the word but to quote my favorite influence,
> "The Thrill Is Gone." Amen and thank God.

BINGO! Onion. JRS did make some mistakes by mentioning books he read, in the early years. He tried to pass off what he said as pure revelations from god's mom to his exclusive ears and he was sharing this wisdom with us - crap- Everything he spoke and wrote were stolen from someone else's work - plagiarized.

yep, Onion, he raped our minds. Rape being and act of power and control. He seduced us to the 'Dark side" and it was exciting.Up to a certain pint, I learned about the bible like I never would have learned anywhere else. And I am grateful. I have had to draw a line from fond memories to when the flip side began to appear. it is not so simple for many, I know.

For those dear ones who are still struggling with the "feelings" that we felt from the "prophet's word" I get it. I was memorized by his words when I was young. There are times wen I feel "defensive" of the 'all or none' statements about this movements. There were good times.

Rather than argue, may I suggest that folks google a few suggested readings like What Onion mention Rape of the Mind. Or Google Witch Craft Techniques.
There are oodles of things to check out with an open mind that maybe, just maybe what we were taught in CLW as still call the "walk", were not from JRS's mouth first. Consider that he he read other books that his words were not unique inspirations of god as he lead me to believe.

I think most of us would know that JRS did have a big library - we did not have internet back int the 50 to '80's. I highly recommend that we all do some digging on our own to verify the original sources of something we remember form a This Week or what ever M was teaching.

I can verify that certain people are writing about their experiences as valid truth. Other incidents when I was not there- its is only hearsay, but i believe them because I see a common pattern. .

One of the biggest problems is the fact that "we" believed everything we told without question.Yes, we were very good at trying to be obedient. I'd jump when I was told to jump and ask how high on the way up.

I know that we were instructed to not delve into other sources. Why was that do you think? Fact is JRS did have a big library he did not open to lend to the members. In old tapes, if still available he did talk about different books . I recall How to Win Friends and Influence Enemies- a good read that has helped many people.

I think researching your points of choice to prove or disprove that the message was truly prophetic or not would be to research. Then make your own decisions-

Who else has suggested titled to read? Look at the publication dates of when they were written I believe will be quit revealing to those dear ones who are feeling offended by some of the statements made by members in this group who have open arms to help each other mature and heal.

If I understand correctly many people are only reading this forum who may be having a difficult time grasping the sexual abuse allegations. In the world out side the walk this is very common. some people deny or are plain reluctant to get involved. That is normal but does not help past, present or future victims. Some people simply weren't in a position to have suspected anything therefore it would be impossible to know if the allegations are true or false legally.

We as members can not make anyone believe anything nor do we want to make any one believe something that is not true. We want the truth to come out.

Only because I have been trained in my profession do I know sing and symptoms of abuse victims. Because I was highly trained, as I did my job I was able to identify , and properly report what I saw to the proper authorities. I is not comfortable being in the position of a mandatory reporter and having to make a report . But, it is well worth the stress to know that you have gotten a child away from what ever they were victims of.

BTW I understand that volunteers were used in many situations involving the children. For those who volunteered, you DID have a legal responsibility to say something to Child protective services. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. So don;t b surprised if you get called in on a court case when you were just volunteer with the kids.
I'm not intended to start a witch hunt here. Just educate. Statistically some one had a gut feeling when they saw some children or teens but could not put their figure on it. Don;t jump to conclusions and rush to tar and feather anyone.

Here are some links that will help everyone to begin to recognize tale tell signs of abuse victims. I hate to say this but those who are looking for their next victims to prey on are very aware of body langue of the vulnerable.( It is NEVER the victims fault. As survivor myself ( not form this cult) I had to learn how to not show I was easy prey victim. There is nothing spiritual about taking power and control over a victim.

[www.stopitnow.org]

[www.babycenter.com]

(The article in the above link made points about behaviors an abused child may exhibit. This reminded me of all the kids who had the willful spirit beat out of them. Could it have been possible that some willful children were trying to tell us grown ups something or not?)

[www.parentsprotect.co.uk]

[www.earlyopenoften.org]

[www.nhs.uk]

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Prettyboy - The disingenuous reference by
> changedagain I believe is to the responses from
> the leaders - they pr4omised investigations and
> counseling but so far I have heard from several
> people who have called the investigation number
> and who have never been called back and I also
> understand the counseling has not been followed
> through with.
>
> The apologies came with promises of reform but
> then everything slunk back below the surface of
> the water like an old gator and hasn't been seen
> since.
>
> We still have a lot of work to do. Keeping our
> mouths yapping on this site seems a good way to
> keep everything moving.

Does the thought of their investigation creep out any one else besides me? They can tamper with witnesses. When the investigators find out truth are they obligated to turn in the clients paid them? I think not.

Seem so rotten to me like they will find out what things they had not already covered up in my opinion. Can I say it more gently for the dear folks who are still on the inside hoping that the OUTSIDE is wrong? I feel for our dear ones who are dedicated to staying IN and wanting to believe that the the people they trusted could be trusted
.
My opinion is that CLW independent investigation will be biased on their side when the facts are presented.

that little red flag Wrote:
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> I'm good with being an overachieving backslider.
>
> Its looking better and better.
>
>
> (As one can tell, sometimes I don't put that much
> thought into my posts - just a gleeful reaction of
> anticipation!)

So, bro, could we "overachieving backsliders" be on our way to forming a a new -eeek! cult following? I am loving back sliding, myself. WEEEEE!

Thanks Onion for the link to Rape of Mind.