Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prettyboy - I'm afraid some of the legal
> aggression we were all feeling may be somewhat up
> in smoke (thank you for the Cheech reference).
> There are many who are down, but definitely not
> out.
>
> The State of NY just changed the statute of
> limitations so that any person sexually
> abused/assaulted as a minor, has until they are 55
> years old to bring an action (criminal or civil).
> Hawaii extended its statute substantially but not
> as fabulously as NY. California is supposed to be
> following up soon with some sweeping changes
> similar to NY.
>
> I suggest round the clock intercession. Let's set
> up a phone tree for the 3:00 a.m. channel time to
> be sure everyone prays when the channels are so
> clear with help from the Menehunes in Hawaii. We
> were so effective the last time we tried this, why
> not keep doing it?


So know I know what got me up at 3 Am.
Well, this is wonderful news that the statute of limitations is being more reasonably changed.

Prettyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> somewhere along the timeline of my being on this
> forum i had read and/or heard that the iowa
> legislature had extended the statue of limitations
> for sexual assaults claims to 25 years. if so,
> would that extension fall within the timeline for
> the alleged sexual abuse claim, having taken place
> in iowa, against holbrook? so this morning i
> checked up on that and this, from my readings, is
> what i think is current iowa law.
>
> the iowa senate early last year unanimously passed
> a bill extending sexual abuse claims to 25 years,
> from the time the claimant turned 18 yoa, if the
> alleged abuse occurred while the claimant was a
> minor. however, as i understand it is that that
> statue of limitations is actually now 10 years.
> if this is so, then i assume the iowa house
> amended the senate's bill from 25 years to 10
> years and this was the bill that was able to pass
> both chambers and became law. is this a correct
> interpretation? if so, then the statue of
> limitations in iowa for sexual abuse claims such
> as that against holbrook has passed, at least in
> iowa, and as a result, neither he need worry about
> any criminal charges nor hargrave be concerned
> about complicity in a coverup. all of that then
> be the instance for criminal charges/claims
> although i've no idea how it pertains to any civil
> claims/charges. sometimes, silence is not
> golden.

it is a start. thanks for that news.

I am still trying to find out how to help my children in their request to make a financial claim for donations to Shiloh- money that should have been theirs. Been trying to find a lawyer who will take the case. No progress. Any ideas of anyone else who had inheritances go into the chamber pot of Shiloh? I worry they are running out of time.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote

> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: NancyB ()
> Date: February 01, 2019 12:06AM
>
> puddington Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------k
> > Mental health professionals will tell you there
> is
> > an inner self that is deep and private. A
> normal
> > person keeps this place secret and private. It
> is
> > very unhealthy to expose this place to another
> > human.
> >
> > But the Living Word demands that you open it up
> > and give it all. You are expected to tell your
> > “designated relationship” everything. Including
> > these secret places. This is very harmful IMO.
>
> WOW! Thank you for that. The 'boundaries" issue
> just clicked in my head. WOW!. Been working on
> that in therapy over the years. I understood the
> concept but I could not ever seem to fully apply
> it. I knew that I had "gullible" and "vulnerable
> written across my forehead for every social path
> that came my way to read-I knew I had a old record
> with deep scratched groves. WOW! Now it personally
> makes sense. Thank you.
>

>
> Thanks to NancyB and puddington. This just clicked
> for me. Boundaries. We learned not to have them.
> We were taught to "spill our guts" in a very
> inappropriate way meant to control us. Once when I
> was living with a family who was "shepherding" me
> through a very rough time, I was keeping a journal
> of my thoughts. Just for me. When the man
> of the house counseled me, he once repeated back a
> very specific phrase that I had written and I knew
> that my privacy had been invaded. I was a grown
> woman and they found my journal and read it so
> that they could "help" me. Such a violation.

Reep, I am so sorry to read that violation. Unfortunately it was norm for the cult to violate every ounce of privacy. The Lord told me" didn't mean squat them if they had to resort to the rick of con men who look at the pictures in your wallet before they reveal some things about you. ( Remember in the Wizard of Oz the traveling man whom Dorthy ran into before the tornado? he looked at Auntie Em's photograph in Dorothy's basket.His crystal ball ball did n't work any better than the revelations in the cult did). All a fake when you have to read someone's diary to appear grandiose.

thanks for sharing Reepicheap. WOW! Waht you shared may very well help someone else to see clearly now that we victims were not alone. Help s me for sure.

I have had a hard time in therapy figuring out just how the therapists knew my boundaries were so poor. ...but , but.. but I was there to heal so i figured I needed to tell the truth. What a conundrum!

Prettyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> regarding the generational discussion, i wonder if
> it be more accurate to identify one's generational
> placement not by age but when initially became
> involved with lw/shiloh. e.g., if one was 50 yoa
> first becoming involved with the church in 1970,i
> would characterize as 2nd generation, not by
> virtue of their age but by virtue of initial
> involvement. regardless, all were lambs for the
> slaughter.
>
> i have been pondering, since one of my more recent
> posts, the notion of freewill, victimization,
> one's own sense of accountability, etc. an
> incredibly fine line and, likely, different for
> many who post their thoughts, feelings and
> experiences on this very wonderful forum; and
> again, i applaud rick for his efforts, passion,
> energy and resolve to help all of those caught in
> the throes of involvement in cult experience. in
> a few days of contemplation and reflection i have
> come to an understanding, exceeding my previous
> understanding, that i was wrong, very wrong in my
> suggesting "get over it". for my experience with
> lw/shilioh, i was not traumatized but rather
> benefited. i became a student of biblical texts,
> as a young man found a safe harbor from the raging
> hormones that a young man experiences in that
> pivotal transitional time of life and discovered
> new friends of all ages, from the very young girls
> who wrote me letters asking if they could sit by
> me in the church service (after all, how could
> they resist given that i was prettyboy, and a
> p.s., along with family photos i include those
> sweet letters of so long ago in my family
> reserve), to an elder asking me what i thought
> about this or that, and of course, other elders
> wanting to reign me in for having an independent
> spirit (god forbid, one thinking independently of
> church orthodoxy, the HORROR!). so i am winding
> back, like a garrison keillor monologue, to what
> i purposed at the outset - "get over it" (my
> words) is vastly better stated as, "move on" as
> best one can. i apologize for my lack of empathy
> for those who have suffered travails that i did
> not. despite this apology, i do still struggle
> with the essence of one's own accountability in
> the involvement of lw/shiloh and if, be the case,
> that in that involvement at some point in time,
> you harmed someone, you spoke of them in
> disparaging terms because they failed to pony up
> to lw/shiloh orthodoxy, this i say - forgive
> yourself and, if possible, ask for their
> forgiveness. what i am suggesting is not a blame
> game; what i am suggesting is one of the most
> central tenets of the christian faith - "forgive
> us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass
> against us." admittedly, a damn hard sell with
> hargrave, a very damn hard sell.
> happy trails to the merry merries and my apologies
> for my sometimes lack of sensitivity

Thanks for sharing, pretty boy. We are learning. And it takes a lot of courage to rethink our views. As we heal, I imagine that all of us especially me, will learn to fine tune our words once we get the hurt out into the open.

RE the Generations: Besides the the time and age you were when we were involved I realized that the whole generation issue has a relationship to when the Children of Israel came out of Egypt. The first generation all died off in the 40 years they wandered in the dessert and did battle with the "enemy".

Any one want to carry this analogy a bit farther? Wasn't it Marilyn who began to really define the generations?
I get the feeling many are stressing over the what generation they are. Maybe I am wrong. I've gotten that depending on what generation we are from is where we may assign blame or not.

i think our purpose in healing is to figure out what developmental stages we missed out on by joining or growing up at what level of crazy the cult had evolved into. i think it kind of sort a does not matter except to help us help each other know where we need to help each fill in the blanks. Each generation will have a slightly different perspective that we use to analyze and figure out just what were rumors and what was facts. Then how do we move forward with what we have to work with. My imperfect opinion, for now, unless someone helps me sees a how to work different.

Thanks Pretty Boy for your insight as you move forward. I am so glad you had the opportunity to learn Biblical text. Hormonal perspective is not a sin- it's fact of life- glad you brought it up. The youth group of the 70's that I was in certainly viewed our place in the "walk" much differently than our parents did. Well, actually, our parents who had been in the church for 20 to 25 years did not know much of what of the the youth group were being taught. JRS and his mistress taught us on the sneak when we were impressionable and vulnerable. If the whole truth were told by JRS the adults would have put a stop to it, I believe.

Prettyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> p.s.,
> i meant to mention victor frankl and my attraction
> to his philosophy, which may somewhat explain my
> sense of personal responsibility, accountability
> and, ultimately, one's sense of oneself. you can
> read about him in your encyclopedia and/or
> internet browser. another intellectual/moral
> giant along with previously mentioned, in my
> forum's comments, of dietrich bonhoeffer. if
> only, lw/shiloh adherents, past and present, could
> have had/have at their readings these 2 giants of
> moral dictate (the likes of jrs and his magic
> tricks and the marilyn/hargrave circus of extreme,
> wholesale bullshit certainly failed at any sense
> of a moral compass), goodness knows how things may
> have turned out differently. i have to wonder,
> without equivocation, had jrs or the hargrave
> blitzkrieg been adherents to a moral code more
> akin to frankl and bonhoeffer than their own,
> self-serving completely temporal universe, sucking
> the life and fortunes and hopes of adherents, then
> this forum would never have been necessary. but
> alas, now is not such the case. instead of
> plowshares, it is now the season of swords; a
> season to right what has been wronged - "to every
> season, there is a purpose". i think i heard that
> in a byrds' song - i wonder where they got that
> line.
> happy trails, you merry merries,
> prettyboy

Man's search for Meaning is a Great reference, Pretty Boy. Thanks

Prettyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i find it so curious how some pastors were
> marginalized and then ostracized; for example, bob
> simmering and francis frangipane because they
> stood up to power because of principle and then
> some of their accusers (as i understand things
> through conversations of recent or long ago), such
> as brent finney not long after became ostracized
> themselves because they drew a line in the sand.
> don't, please don't get me wrong - i've no bones
> to pick with brent, i remember him as a good soul
> and to this day wonder how he and family are doing
> and, i hope well. an account and/or rumor i was
> privy to many, many years ago that lw leadership
> wanted him to dump his wife b/c she "wasn't in
> line" and he declined. i do not know if this is
> true but i would not be surprised if it were. and
> in case brent is following the posts on this
> forum, i wish to tell him hello. and the same to
> steve and barbara corbett, to bob simmering, to
> dorothy simmering, to a certain mail carrier in
> kalona, to francis frangipane (btw, i've his lp in
> my store!) and so many others that for many years
> have been absent in my life but not in my heart.
> you see, and i have stated it previously, i met
> some of the finest people in my life through my
> lw/shiloh experience and, no doubt, many of the
> readers on this forum can say the same. yeah,
> some of it turned out shitty but, on the other
> hand, you have each other now which otherwise may
> not have been the case. and true, hargrave may
> walk away untouched (remains to be seen),
> relishing in temporal delights with a trophy wife
> to boot, but he lacks something you all merries
> have, an adoration for truth.

I agree, Pretty boy, there were some lovely people at Shiloh and glad you were privileged to have met them. One wife was very dear to me since childhood.

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JEZtheBELLE:
>
>
> We live in the land of 'gray' when it comes to
> defining the generations within TLW. The majority
> of the SECOND generation influx in the 70s
> were unmarried singles in their 20s, your family
> being an exception to that rule.
>
> The short-lived THIRD generation
> empowerment in the early 80s were 20-somethings
> who were FIRST generation offspring. The
> death of JRS in '83 shook everything to it's
> foundation, with G&M re-securing the reins
> themselves and essentially ending most of the
> THIRD generation oversight.
>
> You seemed to fall in that gray area whose parents
> were technically SECOND generation with you
> being THIRD, having already been born when
> they enlisted. The SECOND gens who went on
> to marry had kids who later comprised the
> FOURTH generation.
>
> This is only one persons definition of the gray in
> which we all lived. Hope that confuses things
> further.

In my opinion, I think that developmental stages we were in during certain will years play a significant part in our healing. So I took the liberty of finding a link that spells out developmental stages. Maybe if we look at what stage in our development when we were all living in war zone it may help to give us a clue of where we need healing the most.

My theory- take it or leave it.

[pdfs.semanticscholar.org]

Hi all, just wanted to say hi. I haven't been too involved the past few weeks. I guess I am taking a break. I have a lot going on and with so many forums it gets confusing. I love you all and can't possibly catch up on posts and respond so I will make every effort to check in daily.

It seems like a lull in things. But there is no lull in TLWF crap. I want justice as much as anyone--especially for the sexual abuse victims. They live with those horrible memories from a time they were helpless. It seemed there was going to be a reckoning and I hope their will be.

I gotta say that I used to respect Ed Forbes--no more. His treatment of Shalom was disgraceful. He does not deserve respect. He has and is allowing pedophiles to continue on without facing justice. It is sick and he is sick--and a brainwashed little wimp.

I have to wonder what will happen. I can't see the churches going on -- no money honey and G wants his. That is the lull I speak of--I am sure he is pursuing his money with a vengeance. He is a bastard of the highest order.

Again, thank you all for being here and I will try to be more attentive. I miss Lily Rose and Apostle Dog.

Later

Cloud

Marilyn was not JRS' first affair - just his last. And JRS initiating prayers for the death of his first wife started much earlier than the 70's.

One misconception that I believe was originated by G&M and that was used by them for decades with great success - was doing things in secret that other people would be blamed for. They would often tell someone (they did this with me) to speak publicly about a topic or to confront someone about something but they would demand that their name be kept out of it. They also had a system for protecting secrets that involved only telling part of a story to different people - no one person ever had all the details or a complete picture until all of us now communicating began putting our heads together and comparing notes late last summer.

The worst thing that ever happened to them and their cult was a bunch of us getting together and breaking the deeply embedded code of silence by comparing notes. Let's NEVER stop.

One area they practiced this manipulation and secrecy in was re: Rick Holbrook and his history of sexual abuse of women and girls. Yes, they would enlist ministries from other locations to come up to help with the church members who were having a hard time (literally freaking out) about Rick's multiple marriages and affairs, but they NEVER admitted they wanted a cover-up. In fact, most of the ministries that were called upon by them to counsel people in the churches were told very clearly that they wanted help to solve the problem with Rick but then they would describe issues with half-truths and partial pictures (i.e. never discussing the many complaints of Rick's sexual abuse - only acknowledging his marriages and those affairs).

Then when the work was done and the recommendation of the congregants was presented to G&M (and apparently a few others involved more deeply like Silas) they would just arbitrarily dismiss the ministry to go back home where often times they had been undermining that ministry's home church so there was nothing to go back to and THEN they would ignore the recommended solutions and reinstate Rick into his control over L.A. where he was free to resume his sexual misconduct as he pleased.

G&M were experts at ruining the reputations of any ministries that either knew too much about their secrets (including about Rick) or if that ministry was too popular. I believe they did this to MANY including Larry Makuakane, Dan Statton, Bill Maybee, Dan Luebbers, and John Miller. And I am sure there are many more.

Excellent post, Onion.

"The worst thing that ever happened to them and their cult was a bunch of us getting together and breaking the deeply embedded code of silence by comparing notes. Let's NEVER stop."

Yes