wow, i've been at the back of the caboose for over a week having left iowa for phoenix and a true vacation; left the care of my store in the hands of others and also resisted logging into this forum (until now). when i left az yesterday it was 70 degrees F and then 2 1/2 hours later landed in cedar rapids iowa. the pilot, as we were approaching CR, alerted passengers we were arriving in CR with nw wind at 24mph and temp. at -4. some of the passengers yelled turn back. well, we all got a laugh out of that. so today, rather than my being clothed in t shirt, shorts and tennis shoes i had on long underwear, insulated shirt and multiple layers. that was one big change with the other being 4 or 5 pages of posts on this forum which i had not read excepting the last one. given that it is after midnight and i need to retire soon, i need to save until the morrow reading the other posts. but there is something beautiful, methinks, occurring in the back and forth of all these correspondences and perhaps is akin to what kboy recently characterized as "a silver lining" - there is undoubtedly a richness that is being shared among all the merries, veterans and rookies alike, as well as those who presently who are just reading, pondering and truly struggling over their next "step". for the latter group, at least now, they are afforded another perspective whereas before they had but one. and for that latter group, they are faced with a daunting task and, i posit, a supremely existential conundrum. how to muster the courage and fortitude to come to the realization and acknowledgement that bullshit ain't sushi, and perhaps most humbling, they, down deep KNEW it but were unable to admit it because the existential (there's that word again) costs were just too damn high.

as i stated in my previous post, i believe there is beauty and richness, joy and healing that is transpiring here. and this richness and beauty exceeds ("ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?"), far exceeds, repeat, far exceeds whatever temporal treasures and pleasures hargrave and his minions may experience or even have ever experienced. their world is bereft of the joy, beauty and richness that the merries on this forum are sharing and enjoying with each other like cloudwatcher, sunnyford, larrybobo, reepicheep, kboy, onion, red flag, changedagain and many other merries (no doubt, i just failed to specifically mention some/all, no dismissing intended). and not only are you all assisting one another in the healing process, sharing in joy and travail, you are also laying down stepping stones for the many waiting to take their first step, looking for that initial stepping stone (and your words here, whether from changedagain, onion, et al, provide that stepping stone, somewhat unique in what you each have to offer which will reach out to others with their own unique need/s).

as i have previously stated, i applaud all the contributions of all the merries as well as the person/s that have made this forum possible.

happy trails, prettyboy

p.s.

regarding biblical characters, i wonder which character is most analogous to gary hargrave. what came first to my thinking is judas iscariot, trading principle for silver. there must be a more apt example, no?

ROBIN HOOD and HIS MERRIES

Notwithstanding Biblical characters for the GMan, I think it would be a lot more fun if we went on a ROBIN HOOD movie-binge, and watch every version we could find and draw analogies for our own situation. If they can use 'the word', we can use 'the movie'.

As PRETTYboy always encourages, 'Come along, little Merries.'

Start posting your 'Rotten Potatoes' here.

Cloudwatcher Wrote:

> Never thought
> we would see this in our lifetime--but again, as
> Kboy points also points out time an again--it has
> been reaching critical mass for some time. The
> money--it is about the money.

Yes--pretty simple, isn't it? I have a good idea, as do many, the identity of the very few who grabbed most of it. But tracking it down is no easy feat (from what I've heard).
Thanks to everyone who has persevered through the years, weathering the backlash, with no indication it would even get to this point.

Prettyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> as i stated in my previous post, i believe there
> is beauty and richness, joy and healing that is
> transpiring here. and this richness and beauty
> exceeds ("ah, but a man's reach should exceed his
> grasp, or what's a heaven for?"), far exceeds,
> repeat, far exceeds whatever temporal treasures
> and pleasures hargrave and his minions may
> experience or even have ever experienced. their
> world is bereft of the joy, beauty and richness
> that the merries on this forum are sharing and
> enjoying with each other like cloudwatcher,
> sunnyford, larrybobo, reepicheep, kboy, onion, red
> flag, changedagain and many other merries (no
> doubt, i just failed to specifically mention
> some/all, no dismissing intended). and not only
> are you all assisting one another in the healing
> process, sharing in joy and travail, you are also
> laying down stepping stones for the many waiting
> to take their first step, looking for that initial
> stepping stone (and your words here, whether from
> changedagain, onion, et al, provide that stepping
> stone, somewhat unique in what you each have to
> offer which will reach out to others with their
> own unique need/s).
>
> as i have previously stated, i applaud all the
> contributions of all the merries as well as the
> person/s that have made this forum possible.
>
> happy trails, prettyboy

Yes

Forensic accounting. Hmmmm. In a divorce in California, when there is a dipute over the division of property the accountants do what is called a "tracing."

When I was still over accounting at TLW, and then got involved in helping JRS with his divorce, I did a detailed tracing for most of the property that had been alleged belonged to JRS personally, versus the reality that most was derived from offerings and gifts to the nonprofits. Included was a review of contribution statements given to the people each year for their donations.

Working with the California churches, I took the offering records from each church and the bank statements and disbursements and reconstructed where money originated, etc. It is time-consuming but it is not difficult.

When the time comes that the finances of the churches are directly scrutinized, there will be an identifiable paper trail for each parcel of land, each disbursement of funds and so on.

Access to the information will be available if any of the churches are involved in lawsuits or if any ministries who derived support (homes?) from the nonprofits' funds are included in a lawsuit.

Let's say all of the older financial records were destroyed by the TLW visitors to Shiloh of a few weeks ago. If the only thing we're left with is bank records, additional information will be derived from taking depositions of the participants in handling funds.

IMHO it is not possible to hide funds unless gifts were made directly to individuals by congregants (such as cash, gems, precious metals, etc., like JRS had amassed). The IRS is, of course, interested in any transactions that would expose "private inurement" which is tax-free money of a nonprofit that benefits a private individual. Uncle Sam wants his cut too.

Once again, pondering. This information is derived from work I did many years before I ever went to law school.

I wonder how the remaining TLW people relate to the leadership being nowhere to be found. Do they wonder when they hear of assets being sold and money being liquidated? Do they wonder what was done with offerings? Are they okay giving funding to an enterprise with no accountability?
Is anyone asking current leadership hard questions?
I do think light is bringing alot to the surface and we will see where it leads.

Stardomino1 - Welcome to this forum by the way. But also thank you for your "wondering" questions. VERY important.

I have heard some chatter that the loyalists who are choosing to be sad about the younger generations who endured such horrible personal violations at the hands of TLWF leaders are also choosing to throw hatred in the direction of those of us from older generations who are "following the money." I think their inability to use critical thinking has caused them to conclude that we are looking for financial improprieties for our personal benefit.

Narrow-minded and dumb allegations just make me shake my head. What a waste of spit and breath.

Every. Single. Leader. Lied. They were motivated by money. Some were motivated by gaining popularity, getting their sexual jollies at the expense of others including children, and then money.

The coverups of sexual abuse, the established conduct of the leadership in sending sexual abusers to different churches, or sending predators into another group because getting him married would probably fix him, was still motivated by greed (money). Protections were afforded to family members of wealthy families or leaders' families in a manner that makes each of us sick with disgust. It was all protection of the bottom line - scandal reduces the size of the congregation (money), popularity and fame grows the congregation (money), and it could go on endlessly.

People need to be put in jail and registered as sex offenders for what they have done to abuse young women. But those you cannot jail should at least be left with no money and nowhere to go. It is called accountability.

I am sad that a lot of people are making the current situation a sort of "us versus them" proposition. All those who are demanding accountability are doing it for the welfare of all of the people. We aren't doing this for ourselves alone or for any concept of personal gain. I pray every day for more people to wake up and be liberated.

it is difficult to liberate those who are unaware or unwilling to acknowledge the shackles about their souls.