To Paleface:

""The feeling of "not measuring up" in the LW is strong, even today with the current word. It took me a bit of time to shake all of that off. With prayer and seeking Him, the Lord convinced me that He loved me even with my flaws and it was OK. All OK.

Do you remember the phrase "You're killing John" ? This was said to people who were not toe-ing the line correctly, in the late 70's and early 80's. The responsibility of God not moving John into resurrection life was laid upon the congregation. We were told (mostly by MH) that we weren't praying hard enough or long enough. We needed to fast more. We weren't doing all-night prayer meetings enough. Etc. etc. And when John finally died....guess who's fault it was for him passing away? You guessed it. Many of us carried a sense of guilt for John's death for many years afterwards. It didn't help with MH saying stuff like "I don't need you. I have to move fast to get John back.". We were again blamed, this time for not bringing John back. Guilt - all the way around.""

Paleface: I'm certain I repressed that memory (until now) due to the sheer basis of its cruelty and ludicrousness, but it is what caused me to finally leave. I remember M kept telling us to 'get rid of our self-condemnation' and, not surprisingly it was the first thing that left when I left!

That witch would come to Anaheim and beat the sheep, when she wasn't blatantly flirting from the podium with Gary and others.

And at South Gate at a long service where we were all expected to stand the entire length of a real 'rager', (remember those drawn-out all-niters)? I was 6 months pregnant at the time, so from time to time I would lean on a seat armrest, until Gary looked over at me and shot a scornful glance with an "I've lost patience with you" sigh over at me. Some sick, sick puppies there, including those of us who swallowed this stuff, under the guise of 'submission'.

I'm glad I left when I did, I'm thankful to have found this site, but moreover so thankful for a loving Savior who never rejected me and caused me to live once again.

Hi All - I have heard that Gary owns 51% of MFC but it may be that HFM owns 51% of MFC. The property being sold is in the name of MFC but as with any of the financial dealings in TLWF over the last few decades, everything is in question.

There will be a complete reckoning.

Prettboy - Are you John Snow in GOT? He's the only pretty boy I can think of (ha/ha just kidding)

But Pretty - I would like to caution you about speaking to any of us in this forum or any other groups now dealing with the take down of TLWF/ApCo when you start commenting on bitterness and anger. Many of us have been studying the effects of cults by reading a lot of material provided by this actual forum. Please make use of what is available before you find it necessary to post what can only be perceived as criticism for what many of us have experienced and are continuing to experience as we peel away years of conditioning and harm. Thanks.

<<But Pretty - I would like to caution you about speaking to any of us in this forum or any other groups now dealing with the take down of TLWF/ApCo when you start commenting on bitterness and anger. Many of us have been studying the effects of cults by reading a lot of material provided by this actual forum. Please make use of what is available before you find it necessary to post what can only be perceived as criticism for what many of us have experienced and are continuing to experience as we peel away years of conditioning and harm. Thanks.>>





Onion, Thanks for wording that the way you did I lovingly second it.

Thanks PressingOn.

Pretty Boy - I didn't mean to sound mad or snarky at you. There is a lot of "negative press" floating around in the locations that are having prayer for Gary and I guess even for Rick. There are people calling those of us who are active in exposing the truth, "satan." And those who won't believe "the lies" as the true and faithful remnant. All the words like bitterness and forgiveness and "moving on" are being bandied about as if that is the answer (once again OUR behavior is the answer). As if our anger over the years of misconduct financially, sexually, emotionally and in every other way by the leadership, is the problem instead of recognizing the changes being required will save their lives as well as all of ours.

I hope that makes sense and that I didn't influence anyone to withdraw from this discussion or to feel unwelcome. Are we good Prettyboy?

Prettyboy -

Is your address in IC the same as a Speedy-Mart?



P.S. Sorry to other posters.... just saying hi to someone from many, many years ago. (And yes, we are pretty old!)

absolutely, we are good and I thank those of you who provided, today, feedback to some of my more recent comments. regarding my comment/s about bitterness and its effects my intent was to encourage y'all to not let bitterness over the losses you have suffered and the abuses you have endured, for some decades long, to consume your lives to such a point that the gift of life, of living and retaining a sense of wonder and awe would be sorely diminished. I simply do not want that to happen to your brave, caring and very tenacious souls.

in a day's reflections and feeling a growing sense of futility that hargrave will emerge unscathed and with $ galore, to feel that sense of futility by someone (me) 40 years plus removed, virtually and completely, from the lw/Shiloh how can I not, even if I had but only an ounce of empathy in my 135# body, not fathom in some measure your sense of futility?

meanwhile, hargrave and company, will lay up their treasures on earth. from my favorite book in the bible - the rain falls on the just and unjust alike.

this group of robin and the merries are waging an ethical, noble and good fight. the temporal may result in your goals falling short of your desired outcome. I so do hope (fyi, being a secularist I do not pray, but frankly in
this instance I am tempted, sorely tempted to do so) that regardless of outcome, whether perceived good or bad, that the sense of wonder and the majesty of being alive is what you embrace as it has always embraced you.

affectionately,
pretty boy

Thank you, Pretty Boy.

Finally got brave enough to share my Anti-This-Week <biting nails nervously>, including the Walk Talk Dictionary words I felt were most pertinent. I am sharing it here for anyone who might want to read it.

FAIR WARNING - it is written for those who want to leave TLWF and pursue Christianity and the pastors who might be receiving ex-Living Word members into their churches, so it is full of scripture and references to Jesus.

It begins with an introduction sharing why I wrote the booklet, tells briefly of my experience with TLWF (including how and why we left seven year ago), explores and describes what I believe to be the foundational doctrinal flaws in the Body, explains some of the feelings and reactions one can expect to feel upon leaving, offers advice on how to interface with the Christian world in future, and ends with a Living Word Fellowship dictionary for people to be able to understand some of the concepts and interpretations of certain words that are unique to TLWF. (THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP ON THIS!) :)

I know the format (a Google Doc) is not terribly user friendly, but I'm not sure of the best way to make it readable and accessible for those who might be interested. If you’d like to share the link with someone you think might benefit from it, you are welcome to do so, but please do use discretion. To understand why, and what to expect from the booklet, I’m sharing the entirety of the foreword below. Thanks for letting me share my story with you and for being willing to share yours with me.

[docs.google.com]

FOREWORD:

Throughout the process of thinking through and putting down in black and white just how broken The Living Word Fellowship has been from the start, and the reality that I believed in it and gave everything to it for so long, has been very difficult. Even now as I am finishing the last touches and preparing to share it with others, I find myself wanting to just shut my computer and pretend it never existed. That I had never processed or admitted to having been part of a cult. That, in fact, I never had been. But, that’s not the truth, and Jesus says in John 8:32 that it is only the truth that will set us free.

The truth is that this makes me feel vulnerable. Embarrassed. Ashamed. It seems, once again, like I am free falling through all the stages of grief and the many emotions that we dealt with when we first left, only now I’m making that decidedly inelegant process public and putting it on display. After all these years, when I thought I’d finally shaken the feelings of being unworthy and have built a reputation as someone who is mature and credible in her faith, I’m risking it all to broadcast my prior gullibility and failings for everyone to see. That’s how writing and sharing this booklet feels - exposing. But, that’s ok, because I’m not alone. Chances are, you’re feeling naked, vulnerable, stripped, unworthy, not credible, pitied, or shameful as well. And, if you’re not now, you probably will be eventually. This is a hard place to be, but has its own strange nobility, which I’m choosing to embrace right now because I believe it serves a higher purpose.

You see, the reason that the Living Word Fellowship was able to burn through and abuse so many people for so long is that they didn’t let the light shine in. They isolated themselves - especially the leadership - in big facilities behind closed doors and kept other believers (except for a select few) at arm’s length, ostensibly for the protection and purity of the sheep, but mostly because it kept them from being exposed. The people in the Fellowship who saw the truth over the years and left usually did so quietly (like we did at first), not wanting to highlight the brokenness they walked away from because of what they thought it said about them that they’d even been part of it. But, brave people are starting to stand up, look beyond the risk to their own feelings and reputations, and share their stories to let their voices be heard. I want to be a part of that. That’s why I’m willing to feel exposed all over again with this booklet. If removing the secrecy and privacy of the healing process, which I’ve used to cover my shame, is what it takes to show that the emperor of TLWF has been naked all along, so be it.

Now, more than ever, it’s time to embrace the light of Jesus. It’s time to let it shine into all the dark and uncomfortable places in our own hearts and lives, and to shine on His behalf in the rest of the world. Don’t be afraid of stepping into His glorious light - no matter how dirty or ragged it might show you to be. He didn’t condemn the woman caught in adultery for her nakedness (John 8:1-11), and he won’t condemn you, either. Over two thousand years ago, Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 9, which was quoted in Matthew 4:15-16: The people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death, a light has dawned. Now, He’s fulfilling that promise once again for me and for you and for everyone leaving the shadow of The Living Word Fellowship behind. Jesus - the light - has now been shined into that darkness, and the darkness will never overcome Him (John 1:5). So, maybe leaving TLWF, and especially talking publicly about that process, feels exposing. Or, maybe it just means that we’ve finally stepped into the light.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2019 10:24AM by JesusJesusJesus.

throughout the course of recorded history, depots and despotic regimes have always needed a scapegoat. hitler and his minions focused on jews, communists, gypsies and others - and they pulled it off ultimately resulting in ww2 with the cost of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, added to those, the expense required for articles of destruction and that which was destroyed. the costliest "enterprise" (there has got to be a better word, no?) in the history of humankind.

now perhaps some of you are thinking "thank you prettyboy but we do not need a history lesson as I learned all this in 8th grade world history". the point I am making, with regard to hargrave, et al, you band of merries are the quintessential jews, gypsies, communists and others that he is trying to characterize you as. if gary hargrave ever had a moral compass, which I understand some of you will doubt, I have been informed by certain sources (sorry, at this time I am bound to not reveal these sources) that on a voyage from Hawaii to the south pacific, while screwing a 22 year old intern/transcriber (Marilyn was doing the same, but in her case the dude was 17) on the the bow, his moral compass fell out of his pocket and went into the ocean and presently rests at the bottom of the mariana trench.

JJJ -

Haven't had a chance to check out the link, but your foreword is beautifully written.


Prettyboy

I think you will be a good addition to our tribe.

Let's talk soon.