Larry. Maybe we could rent the PL facility for a weekend retreat of ex-pats. That would be one heck of a party.

Has there been any thawing of the ice between those people and you? I know John S really painted you up to be satan. I would think most of those folks would be re-evaluating all of that. If I was Jason, I’d have a few long face-to-face chats with you to help that church change directions. You could really help him. If he was open to it.

Thank you so much for the warm welcome!

Like Onion, I too, feel most safe posting on this forum. I am on the FB Survivors page, and there appears to be a mix of people. Some who have created lives away from TLWF and have been long removed, and who are there to share their story and then go back to their lives. Others, like me, have been removed from TLWF and are rekindling many lost, eternal, relationships. The experiences I had in the last year being in the church are very painful, and I hope this is the right place to share them. I want to call out names. Even if they were victims themselves, they were my abusers.

Puddington, it's interesting you mention John S in the most recent post on this forum, because he is the reason my world began a downward spiral. I never even had a direct relationship with him, yet he felt (or was given power) to make life decisions for me. Decisions that in the end, I made for myself and am thankful for it!

lone.wolf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you so much for the warm welcome!
>
> Like Onion, I too, feel most safe posting on this
> forum. I am on the FB Survivors page, and there
> appears to be a mix of people. Some who have
> created lives away from TLWF and have been long
> removed, and who are there to share their story
> and then go back to their lives. Others, like me,
> have been removed from TLWF and are rekindling
> many lost, eternal, relationships. The
> experiences I had in the last year being in the
> church are very painful, and I hope this is the
> right place to share them. I want to call out
> names. Even if they were victims themselves, they
> were my abusers.
>
> Puddington, it's interesting you mention John S in
> the most recent post on this forum, because he is
> the reason my world began a downward spiral. I
> never even had a direct relationship with him, yet
> he felt (or was given power) to make life
> decisions for me. Decisions that in the end, I
> made for myself and am thankful for it!

Welcome Lone Wolf you are not alone. I am glad you feel comfortable here on this forum. I understand the reluctance to go public--it is all so new for you it seems. We are here for you.

puddington – I think most people who left TLWF were labeled as some version of Satan or Jezebel – especially if they spoke out against the leadership. When I broke with party lines and suggested that TLWF leaders should not take the place of God in people’s lives, and that people should read the words of Jesus for themselves and put them into practice, it did stir up quite the hornet’s nest. I’m not aware of Satan telling people to obey Jesus – perhaps he used me to be the first. :) I’ve come to believe that when evil calls you evil, it may not be such a bad thing. It’s when evil loves you that you need to worry.

I talked with John and Chris Sayer when they first relocated to Palmer Lake. They contacted several who had left TLWF, in hopes of drawing them back into the local church. He was very adamant about the incompetence of the existing shepherds, and boasted about his ability to straighten things out. To my face, he said he felt I was in a better place than when he had last seen me. Underneath though, he was seething. Later, he could not hide how he really felt about me to my children, offering to be their father since I was no longer worthy. My son offered a few expletives and got up and left. He also blew up when my name was mentioned by another couple he was trying to draw back into the church.

I’ve always tried to be cordial to John and Chris whenever I would run into them at the store. John seemed to be clueless about looking out for the interest of others, only himself and his perceived position. I think he genuinely believes that is what it means to be a shepherd. I know many started leaving the church because of his harsh treatment. That may be the MO in TLWF, but that is not how pastors relate in most of the rest of Christianity - they would not have a job if they did. By that point, I had the opportunity to compare the toxic atmosphere of TLWF with a healthy church and had no interest in returning to the mire.

I did reach out to Jason when he posted his letter, leaving a phone message at LWC and an IM on Facebook. I have not heard back from him. I was hoping to connect him with an oversight group that works with hundreds of nondenominational churches and really helped New Life Church after the Ted Haggard fiasco. They are a national group and have earned my trust over the past 11 years. Anyone else looking for outside help for their local church, feel free to message me and I’ll give you their contact info. Very few thought New Life Church would survive, but now they are stronger than ever. It is so refreshing to deal with professionally trained counselors rather than those with a god complex and no clue.

Hi All - I just got back home this afternoon from a WONDERFUL visit with [Mr.and Mrs. B]. I have never experienced such loving hospitality before. What a privilege and an honor to be with them.

Of course being away from the computer for a day has my mind reeling with questions. For example, I would love to hear how many church facilities have an apartment or a room or even a luxurious home dedicated to G&M. And then, how often is that facility actually used for G&M or now G.

I heard an unconfirmed rumor that the folks in Maui asked Gary to move from the church facility (where quite a luxurious home had been created for G&M on the church property). I know that before South Gate was sold, there was an extra bathroom in the back of the church that was for Marilyn only. That bathroom was locked at all times unless Marilyn was at the facility which was RARE. Likewise, one of the nicest cabins in Palmer Lake is off limits 24/7 to anyone but G&M unless someone is honored with the cleaning responsibilities. Usually, cleaning instructions were provided in extreme detail from Marilyn, at least regarding bathrooms such as that at South Gate.

Obviously, there was never a consideration for efficient use of space or of money in so all of these instances. It's like Shiloh U. Someone (Gary and probably Marilyn) had a dream of being a big shot in education and therefore thought it was a brilliant idea to start Shiloh U with money from the TLWF Trust that is administered in Iowa at Shiloh. So the Trust is funded by all of the churches, especially when a property is sold, and someone thought it was a good idea to have a university at a church facility in Bumfuck, Iowa where the ability to transfer credits from the facility seems almost impossible or at least very difficult.

I continue to be in awe every day. Not the kind where you revel in the majesty of God, but the kind where you cannot believe the decisions that were being made that impacted every single one of us and really even impacted the legacy of all who have gone on but had given their lives and money to the walk.

The most common refrain in my head is: WTF?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2018 11:47PM by rrmoderator.

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi All - I just got back home this afternoon from
> a WONDERFUL visit with [Mr. and Mrs. B.]. I
> have never experienced such loving hospitality
> before. What a privilege and an honor to be with
> them.
>
> Of course being away from the computer for a day
> has my mind reeling with questions. For example,
> I would love to hear how many church facilities
> have an apartment or a room or even a luxurious
> home dedicated to G&M. And then, how often is
> that facility actually used for G&M or now G.
>
> I heard an unconfirmed rumor that the folks in
> Maui asked Gary to move from the church facility
> (where quite a luxurious home had been created for
> G&M on the church property). I know that before
> South Gate was sold, there was an extra bathroom
> in the back of the church that was for Marilyn
> only. That bathroom was locked at all times
> unless Marilyn was at the facility which was RARE.
> Likewise, one of the nicest cabins in Palmer Lake
> is off limits 24/7 to anyone but G&M unless
> someone is honored with the cleaning
> responsibilities. Usually, cleaning instructions
> were provided in extreme detail from Marilyn, at
> least regarding bathrooms such as that at South
> Gate.
>
> Obviously, there was never a consideration for
> efficient use of space or of money in so all of
> these instances. It's like Shiloh U. Someone
> (Gary and probably Marilyn) had a dream of being a
> big shot in education and therefore thought it was
> a brilliant idea to start Shiloh U with money from
> the TLWF Trust that is administered in Iowa at
> Shiloh. So the Trust is funded by all of the
> churches, especially when a property is sold, and
> someone thought it was a good idea to have a
> university at a church facility in Bumfuck, Iowa
> where the ability to transfer credits from the
> facility seems almost impossible or at least very
> difficult.
>
> I continue to be in awe every day. Not the kind
> where you revel in the majesty of God, but the
> kind where you cannot believe the decisions that
> were being made that impacted every single one of
> us and really even impacted the legacy of all who
> have gone on but had given their lives and money
> to the walk.
>
> The most common refrain in my head is: WTF?


I know--it is so sad. WTF for sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2018 11:48PM by rrmoderator.

Thank you Cloudwatcher for your answer on the possible location of the tlfw bullshit letters. And thanks to The Little Red Flag for capturing the latest b.s.

Man, I wish I found you all soooooo long ago. Would have helped...maybe.

Onion -

I didn't hear the rumor about people asking Gary to move out of his Maui home, but it could very well be true. Depending on the timeline of when that happened, it might coincide with Silvana Hargrave's Facebook post which asked people to give monetary gifts so she and Gary can start their new life together in a new house. I tried to find the post on her FB timeline but it appears to be missing and was probably deleted.

For years the Maui church building was just one story, with plans to build a second story. G&M's house was already two stories and fully completed at the time, so their home was priority (and probably rarely used as you mentioned). I haven't been back in years, but from recent photos it looks like the second story was added to the church building.

And from a real estate website about the Maui church property: "The overall crime risk for this area is moderate with 1 criminal and sex offenders residing within 1 mile." Hmm...

Rewind a few years to 2003, when Silvana was married to Dave Jenkins. That was during the time of the lawsuit the church was having with neighbors and others in the community. I don't remember the entire situation, except that it was financially taxing on Dave and Silvana. Everyone living there could feel the tension. At the time, Silvana had a job cleaning Silver Cloud Ranch (which I think was bought-out by Oprah Winfrey); Dave had an architecture/design business but I don't remember him being overly busy. It always bothered me that G&M had a very cushy lifestyle, while the Jenkins were obviously under a lot of stress with the lawsuit and taking on the financial burden.

To your question about other facilities with an apartment for G&M, I know that Shiloh had one above the main kitchen. When I was younger I would tag along with my Mom when she had to stock their fridge with beer and do some preparations before they arrived at Shiloh. I'm sure it's been remodeled once or twice, too.

Oh yes, the cleaning. When G&M officially moved to Honolulu, Gary and Ginger Wallen moved shortly after with their two kids. Ginger oversaw housekeeping at Shiloh, and was very meticulous. Years later when I spent some time in Honolulu, I was asked to help clean G&M's multi-million $$ house. Ginger was there and directed us all on what to do - and like you said - we had cleaning instructions with extreme detail. That was definitely an AHA! moment when I realized why Marilyn moved the Wallen family to Honolulu.

I ask myself "WTF" when I think of my family and why they still continue to remain part of the church.

1. When did "The Walk" or "Church of the Living Word" become "The Living Word Fellowship"? I don't recall that name. I was in this thing from late 1973 through about 1978, in southern and central California.

2. Is there any kind of count or census of people who have left The Walk/TLWF and what their paths have been since then? I am curious about how many ex-members still identify as Christians, how many became pagan or "new age", how many became atheists.

3. I had a friend who "blew out" of The Walk and had an extremely hard time of it. I moved to a different "body" (for college) and when I left, I had a very easy time of it, really. (This was thanks to the smarter, more enlightened outlooks of the leaders and members of my new local group.) How many people had an easy time leaving The Walk/TLWF?

lone.wolf and Onion -

I haven't been around at the local SD church for almost 5 years, but they had the apartment there (the Taco Shell). At some point I was involved in cleaning and set up for 2 - 3 years, and involved in getting all the new furniture and decor at one time. One of the times, years ago before the remodel, was so ridiculous. Someone from APCO directed us on a certain supposed decor that G & M liked. I spent weeks shopping and pimping the whole place out based on the input of what they would like. As soon as they arrived they made it know that they hated the decor, and that it wasn't their style at all. Long story short, come Monday after they had left, I was directed to gather and repackage everything, even if it had been used and return it all for a refund. It took weeks/months to return items, and get all the new stuff that they now claimed to adore. I can remember staying up til 2 and 3 in the morning trying to get the apartment ready for them, eyes half closed at the end of the night (uh, morning) as I searched for any amount of dust that might have settled during the evening. No spiders, no footprints on the rug, windows washed and then splashed by the kids in the pool, blah, blah, blah - all for the King and Queen. Oh, and then off to work by 7:00 am.