I too am skeptical of what is going on. What happens in the corporations will tell the story. Did they resign from boards of directors? Mary said that will not be a known factor until after tax filings next year. I have not heard anywhere that Gary has apologized or is "on his face". It seems to me that people are stopping short when it comes to mentioning his name in the same sentence as the other leaders who have stepped down. It is like the elephant in the room. Remember they are brainwashed too and their lives have been ruined or at least hijacked just like the rest of us. It is conditioning of fear still present.

Gary can spin it any way he wants but he is still spinning and that is the point. He is in charge and retains the loyalty of defrocked leaders. He is the man behind the curtain and orders are still coming down. It is doubtful, even if the boards of directors are changed, that he will relinquish final say via Hargrave Family Ministries as the corporate head. So, we won't know for months what the truth is in that regard. Smoke and mirrors.

Maybe everyone feels that this is a new day and the future is bright and the churches can now go on and restructure and make it better. In a perfect world with a leader that has integrity, maybe that would be true. But I fear this is wishful thinking and not the case. We cannot ease up and think it's all good. The leadership was and is just as much under his control now as they were, just like the rest of us.

A tyrant rules with fear and intimidation. That does not go away overnight especially after decades of control---not willingly at least. I would hope that the churches would go back to the people to choose the best way forward for their church. But I don’t think the story will end up being so bright. There is too much unknown that has been there for far too long.

For Gary to leave millions on the table and walk away? That isn't his mindset with the millions he has in assets and money. The house he lives in—was made a castle by extracting free labor from the working class of TLWF. So why would he allow mere peasants to stand in the way of his cash flow? I guess we will see. Miracles can happen---but watch for him to be broken and take responsibility and really leave the churches for the people. I won't hold my breath.

Completely agree, Larry. What we are seeing is a leadership change. That's not enough; what TLW really needs is a culture change.

I want to point out that my description of the Joe Knott case is incorrect. His wife, Wanda Kay, was not being critical of John Robert Stevens. Instead, Knott's lawyer claimed he was deeply disturbed and driven to insanity by a "slow, clever process of mind control." The final straw for Knott seems to have been the decision of the church to recommend that his wife Wanda divorce him and take his children. Here is another article from the Iowa City Press Citizen, dated January 15th, 1982.
[drive.google.com]

Reading these articles, these same themes that were present in the 1970s and 1980s are present today. There is still considerable isolation and group think occurring. Those who speak out are still condemned publicly by shepherds as being "rebellious." It would be easy to think that isolation no longer occurs because the church puts on Christmas truck parades and fireworks shows, but the most important isolation is still heavily enforced. Current members are discouraged from associating with ex-members and those who "are struggling."

One difference today is that social media seems to have bridged this gap. There are now 1.2K comments on Shalom's post. Current members and ex-members are supporting each other and validating each others concerns. Friends who have not spoken in years are now sharing their feelings with each other. The lie that ex-members are simply bitter or a toxic influence is being exposed for what it is, a device to keep people submissive.

I encourage anyone who still has friends in the movement to just listen. Current members have suddenly been forced to question their innermost beliefs. These are core beliefs that have been deeply rooted for decades. I never felt more alone than the day I began asking myself those deep questions about TLWF. It is beautiful to see old friends being there for each other; it gives me hope for the future.

Unbelievable amount of information the past few weeks on the forum.

So appreciative to Onion and fromsouthchicago in giving me a Walk history lesson. It's incredible.

Shalom is incredibly brave and her experience is heartbreaking. Glad that John Miller posted. I don't know Shalom, but I believe her. John went a step further and validated her experience. God only knows how many more "Shaloms" are out there as predators don't stop until someone stops them.

I have a wait-and-see approach to what will happen next at CLW. For the sake of the people there, I hope there's a genuine change.

kbyrne Wrote:

> I have a wait-and-see approach to what will happen
> next at CLW. For the sake of the people there, I
> hope there's a genuine change.

Me too. However, I'm certain that Gary won't do anything meaningful unless he feels he has no choice. He lacks any semblance of integrity, so my assumption (based on his long history of power trips) is that he will first look out for himself, and only do what is right if he fears legal consequences. I never underestimate his cunning, so don't put much weight on the appearance of change. Maybe that's why I go by this username...to bring attention at how many 'changes' took place through the years in TLWF, that were in reality only cosmetic. Anyway, this recent post on Shalom's FB captures my disgust with hoping for good things to happen through bad actors:

Justine:
Will everyone please stop saying they are shocked to find out the extent to which Rick abused the congregants of TLWF? Everyone knew he was a creep! People made jokes about his serial affairs all the time. Everyone knew he was only head of TLW because he was Marilyn's son. Has anyone even seen him open a bible? Now is not the time to feign naivety. We ALL participated within a culture that enabled abusers like Rick Holbrook and Gary A Hargrave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2018 03:59AM by changedagain.

Has anyone seen this? Unbelievable!


The Response of Living Word Fellowship to the Allegations of Sexual Misconduct by a Member of our Leadership

We take seriously any reports of mistreatment of our staff, congregation or visitors within the Living Word Fellowship of churches, and we strongly condemn sexual harassment and misconduct of any kind. Such damaging activity should never take place, period, let alone in any church location, and yet we have received credible reports of such inappropriate behavior. As leaders of a fellowship, we recognize that any such occurrence without a strong and immediate response could produce a systemic problem within our church culture, so leadership practices must be addressed.

As a result, we are heartbroken over this, and we deeply apologize to anyone who has been hurt by a member of our pastoral team and by leaders who knew you were hurt but did not properly respond to inappropriate behavior.

We know that no apology can truly make up for such hurts, and that’s why we are taking decisive action. We have already removed leaders who have been involved in misconduct or did not call out or sufficiently address such issues.

In particular, Rick Holbrook is no longer involved in any aspect of leadership or involvement with The Living Word Fellowship, and he will not be allowed back as either a minister, leader, or member of a congregation of The Living Word Fellowship. We are also taking a deep, critical look at our leadership organization—in both structure and specific personnel—and we are taking steps toward necessary changes.

Know that we are taking this very seriously, and we are emboldened that this is the Lord’s church—He will hold us accountable if we do not address these issues. Therefore, our first response is deep repentance and prayerfully seeking the Lord. We are also engaging outside professional advisors to investigate how such situations were allowed to occur and provide us with direction to change the culture that permitted this, and to develop safeguards to prevent misconduct and abuse from occurring ever again.

In addition, we are reaching out to those negatively impacted by this behavior, to offer our apologies as well as counseling with outside professionals.

We believe that as damaging and hurtful as these revelations have been to our fellowship, this has caused us to take a serious look at our policies, procedures, and leadership culture. As a result, we believe this is a new day for The Living Word Fellowship, and our greatest priority now is to help all who have been hurt and see the power of God bring healing and restoration.


[www.thelivingword.org]

You said it, Reepicheep, unbelievable.

"Such occurrence without a strong and immediate response could produce a systemic problem within our church culture"

Anyone reading this should do a full stop in the first paragraph. By first focusing on "what could produce a systemic problem within their church culture," these leaders are already downplaying the fundamental problems that currently exist in their church culture. First and foremost, these leaders need to address the entire culture of abuse that enabled this. That's not an after thought; it is the problem itself.

They begin to dwell on problems in their current culture at the end of the letter, almost as an afterthought. However, they phrase it as a problem with "policies, procedures, and leadership culture." Leadership is a distraction. Policies and procedures are a distraction. The problem is continuing to defend shepherding and total obedience as fundamental beliefs. The specifics of shepherding are not the issue. The entire concept of shepherding is the issue.

[www.thelivingword.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2018 06:50AM by GSchaeff.

"We have already removed leaders who have been involved in misconduct or did not call out or sufficiently address such issues."

So Gary has been set out? I thought he resigned.

Wow.Thank you

"Know that we are taking this very seriously, and we are emboldened that this is the Lord’s church."

Your boldness is delusional and your words have zero credibility. It's time to recognize this church, whatever the hell it was meant to be, is a complete disgrace--due to its corrupt, heartless leadership. Get out of the way and let people find a path toward healing. Right now you continue to be a stumbling block.

Wow.Thank your wanna puke