Shalom, I know how much courage it took to post those letters, and I so deeply respect you for it. What happened to you was so wrong and violating. It makes me feel so upset to read the account of this young woman, trying to do right by God, being ignored and abused again and again by the people who were supposedly her "spiritual parents". It's sickening to read what you were going through.

I hope your message of truth will embolden others to tell their stories as well. All we want is the truth!

I have submitted Gary's definition of the right to privacy as well as his bizarre extension of the clergy-penitent privilege to a group of top-notch litigators in Los Angeles and hopefully, they will take the time to respond so I can give you the opinions of some pretty badass litigation attorneys.

In my very non-lawyer opinion, Gary's description of both the right to privacy and the clergy-penitent privilege is another example of clergy committing fraud on his congregation. I saw very little truth in the wild expansion of two principles that do not stand for what Gary is hoping they stand for.

I am also in touch with two law firms who are involved in lawsuits against the Catholic church who have said they would give us some input on how to think about these latest revelations so no one has to depend on the various (well educated and intelligent) opinions that have been voiced on this forum. Changedagain, Larry Bobo, kBOY, and many more -- Well Said.

Shalom - You Are A Champion who was made to feel victimized. But you are a brilliant light at the end of a dark period in history and a CHAMPION!

Shalom -

I love you dearly.

That said, I just want to scream after reading your letters. I am so furious at what you have been through. It is so TLWF-ish for them to somehow interpret everything in a way that makes you look like the perpetrator. I read these, thinking how much we apologized a hundred times for anything we may have done (because we really are only human) while writing and spilling our guts. Every bit of their counseling and supposed guidance to you was to cover their asses. Your understanding of the situation, and emotional response was right on, and appropriate, yet you were made to feel like anything weird was your fault (because, gee, "that's just Rick").

You always were one of the strong ones. And, although heartbroken (and angry) by all of this, I am so very proud of you and the stand you have taken. Thank you for being brave and taking steps to begin a path of healing. You won't be ignored, we are listening. I'm counting on others reading your words and deciding that enough is enough.

I also hope that, through this forum, and you making public your story, the much needed addressing of a leadership group that chose to ignore your pleas for help, are sanctioned and brought to justice - and sorry, Gary, your little inclusion of your right to privacy is a stunt that just isn't going to work this time.

(I mean, really, way to go all you TLWF shepherds out there. This is how you cover your sheep? I'm disgusted by the actions of all of those mentioned. The years of emotional and sexual abuse in a supposed safe place is just sickening.) Sorry for that little rant - it just slipped out

Much love to you -

Your Long Ago Summer Mom in San Diego

SHALOM:

Everyone who has a heart is heartbroken in reading your post(s). As the other half of 'Your Long Ago Summer Mom From San Diego', and one who has known your family since 1980, it is hard to fathom the extent of the abuse you were forced to endure. Your repeated attempts to correct the situation and your pledges of loyalty to ones who deserved only to be indicted makes it all the more painful to hear.

With the rising tide of courage among victims such as yourself, it is only a matter of time before the entire house of cards comes tumbling down. (How about that for a prophecy?)

I would be interested in knowing which of the current shepherds was the dorm room leader. Shalom, I applaud your courage and hope that we as a group get through to the current members. Unless they are the ones writing no one else is told about we are discussing here. Is there a way to bypass the leadership and communicate with the sheep

Definition provided to the TLWF leadership from “an attorney”:

The clergy-penitent privilege protects a person from being forced to discuss evidence in a legal proceeding. The privilege applies to confidential communication made by a penitent to a member of the clergy. The communications do not have to be confessions. They just have to be made in confidence. The communication can be made orally, in writing, or by email. Any communication between a clergy member and a penitent is presumed confidential. A penitent is any person who has made a confidential communication to a clergy member. A clergy member is a minister or religious practitioner, within a church. It is someone who is authorized to hear these confidential communications and who has a duty to keep them private under the principles or beliefs of their church. In California, either the clergy member or the penitent can invoke this privilege. That means they cannot be forced to testify or otherwise give evidence about the confidential communication. They can also keep any third party who overhears the communication from giving evidence about it; in fact, each person can keep the other from disclosing the communication.


Reading this, I’m guessing a lot more people are being ordained in TLWF right now. Although clergy-penitent privilege never stopped a congregant’s personal and private information from being shouted from the pulpit until it was necessary to cover for Rick’s disgusting behavior.

Shalom,

Reading your words and the words of others on Facebook is boring a hole in me. I love you and cannot even begin to tell you how thankful I am that you came forward. Our thoughts on this forum have been dismissed over and over with G man's ability to deflect and discredit. But now the truth is there in the blazing fire. We have not been making shit up. We were telling the truth. But we did not have the proof -- and now you have given the proof—the worst of it. There is so much more—but this is the ship sinker.

Gary Hargrave is a liar. He will do anything to save his ass. He never gave a shit about you and neither did Marilyn. We all thought they did because that is what they brainwashed us to believe--that the horrible rejection and worthlessness is somehow cured when they give a stamp of approval only to be cast into darkness in the following minute over and over. In your letters-- parsing words in your honesty to keep them from rejecting you like trying to keep a dog from biting or something worse. We get it --we really do. And we are here for you.


We are all here for you and anyone else -- we will stand behind our words and yours. I just want to cry a river.

When you advertise a theology who's central figure was known for LOVE, and then perpetrate a culture infamous for the opposite, you have a paradigm as nefarious as deception gets.

Our progressive loss of spiritual sight is what blinded us from acknowledging the transgressions being perpetrated in our midst.

I think it's important for all of you to read this to understand who and what you've been dealing with all of these years. This is from Wikipedia but extracted directly from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 5 for Anti-social personality otherwise known as a sociopath:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Some excerpts:

A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):

a.Identity: Ego-centrism; self-esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure.
b.Self-direction: Goal-setting based on personal gratification; absence of prosocial internal standards associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.
AND

2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):

a. Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others; lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.
b. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion; use of dominance or intimidation to control others.

B. Pathological personality traits in the following domains:

Antagonism, characterized by:

a. Manipulativeness: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one's ends.
b. Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentation of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events.
c. Callousness: Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one's actions on others; aggression; sadism.
d. Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful behavior.[/i]

When I said that Cousin Marilyn was a textbook example of a sociopath, I meant it.