Onion Wrote:

> Within the last few weeks Gary lied to a relative
> of someone connected to this group and said he had
> never heard anything about sexual misconduct by
> Rick.

not surprising

That alone should be a RED FLAG to not keep your hopes too high.

Anne,

Amy is a pretty tough lady. I grew up with her an my impression of her is and always has been she isn't one to take crap from others. I'm not sure why she has aligned herself with other leaders. (Especially those who don't want others crap on their calendars!) I wonder if she would still be in this organization if she wasn't one of the leaders?

Regarding reaching out to leadership... a couple of years ago, I would have been on board. I too, tend to focus on the good in others and reason away the negative. This all changed when I had a one on one encounter with a sociopath outside of the fellowship. FYI, sociopaths are the nicest people you will ever meet! That is until you say no to them. Confronting them is one of the worst things a person can do. In fact, it can be down right dangerous. They experience physical pain when they're confronted... it's so painful they'll do anything to make it go away. Sociopaths will not respond rationally/professionally. Therefore, I have chosen to write on this forum in hopes that I can help other members see the light.

Changedagain,

I was in TLWF for close to four decades.

Thanks for sharing I_woke_up

There’s several of these young pastor/wife teams that are running big churches now.  Jason & Amy Sayer in Palmer Lake.   And Erin & Mary Dunn in San Diego.  These couples came out of Shiloh and have been trained by Craig & Phyllis Haworth.  They are puppets.  Actually, fairly sweet people with very vicious people overseeing & directing them.  

In both situations, these couples replaced older pastor/wife couples who were harsh and sheep were started to complain.   Ie John & Chris Sayer and Bruce & Gilee Larson. (IMO)

The new couples give a nicer sweeter image to the LW leadership style.  But those sheep need to remember who is really pulling the puppet strings here.  I suspect that nothing really has changed except the face of the sheep beater.  

We're really addressing those controlling these "sweet" people.  I suspect Rick, Gary, Phyllis etc.  are not happy about it.  They want to make it appear as though we, (ex-pats), are being harsh to very well-meaning, sweet messengers of oneness. 

howmidoing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My parents called me today to say that Gary
> Hargrave is wanting to changing things there.
> Apparently, there has been a revelation that there
> has been a lot of hurt and a lot of wrong things
> that have gone on. They want to have a 360 change
> (I think that's what they called it) and they are
> asking anyone that is willing to make contact
> either anonymously or openly and to let them know,
> either in email, letter or call, their story. What
> happened to you, why you left. They want to change
> and heal the past hurts to be able to move forward
> and not repeat the same mistakes.
>
> I do not doubt for a single second your genuine desire to see a reconciliation between members and past members. There are many in the church that I love and believe that their hearts have been in the right place.

My suggestion would be, if Gary is sincere, he knows the wrongs he has committed. He knows why people left. Why doesn't Gary just come clean and say, I know that I, or that Marilyn and I, or whoever, have done X, Y and Z, we were wrong? Trust is something that has to be earned.

Howmidoing,

Some of what you said about the questionnaire reminded me of a particular mannerism of Gary’s. He is always calling things “new.” You said Gary "is wanting to change things there" and that there "has been a revelation." I've come to find that nearly everything Gary does is described as a "revelation" or a “new thing.” It could be a big thing or a small thing but it's always a "new thing." I think there's a reason for that.

One thing TLW members have heard countless times over the pulpit is that they didn't submit themselves completely last time, or they didn't truly repent, but this time it will work. This time they have a "new understanding of what repentance means,” or a "new revelation of what love is.” I encourage anyone reading this to write down those revelations. Have they changed in 30 years or are they still the same “revelations” Gary was using in the 80s? Is that why you can seemingly pick up a tape and 'have the answer’ to what your problem is with your finances? The answer is in the shared language TLW uses, or "walk talk" as it has been called. Through that language, you can trick your brain into thinking you’ve solved any problem whatsoever.

Rick Ross, the creator of this forum, has identified 10 signs of a potentially unsafe leader, and an additional 10 signs regarding people who follow said leader. I posted a link at the bottom, and I highly recommend reading them all, but three in particular that I see occurring here are:

1. The group/leader is always right.
When Gary says it's a "new day," it's usually accompanied by the expectation that what Gary is about to say is infallible, because people have been praying 24/7 that God is 'about to' to give him an answer 'today' that 'will change this earth if only they can turn their brains off and accept it.'

2. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought.
By calling it "new," Gary is also saying "don't compare anything that didn't work in the past." In this way, people are encouraged to resist thinking critically and comparing what they are about to hear to how it differs from what they heard before.

3. Followers feel they can never be "good enough"
The subtext in calling something a "new revelation" is that if people don't accept the word, the onus is on them and not Gary. It's their problem that they can't allow Gary to change. They've hardened their heart.
In this way, "new revelations" are old news for Gary. Much of what he does is described as "new." Whether it's a word he's about to bring or a Hawaiian shirt he's about to wear, he has molded an audience that responds to that language by guilt tripping themselves over any critical thought they might have about it.

These programmed mannerisms may seem innocent, but everyone who has ever been inside TLW knows that "walk talk" is weird enough to raise eyebrows outside of the church. That's because the language used is programmed to be controlling. It's programmed to make you shut off the part of your brain that would be skeptical that Gary has any desire after 30 years to give up the real power and control that he has over other people's lives.


[culteducation.com].

The blame-game has long been an integral part of TLW's modus operandi. Any quick perusal of the last three decades of 'words' would quickly demonstrate that when anything goes wrong or fails to come to fruition, there is only one demographic to blame--the little people.

Believing this is about to change even in the midst of recent episodes of blatant denial is floating down that same river.

Questionnaire? Where can I get one.

I would like to see the questionnaire that is apparently being used in the current "open communication" drive.

I would also REALLY like to see the Non-Disclosure Agreements that TLWF uses when they settle a dispute or kick someone out.

Just for my curiosity.

Sorry, but this just reeks of too little too late. All of the abuses that have been carried on all these years unabated. Really? Manipulation and self-preservation have been the hallmarks of this organization. Why would that suddenly change? Only out of self-interest. They're not looking out for us. They;'re looking out for them. Millions of dollars at stake. And a messianic self-image - we are unique in the world.Not buying into this for a second.