You know they did this "open door" thing quite some time ago with meetings every week so people could air their concerns and complaints in an open forum. Nothing was done about anything--and important and valid concerns were voiced. After they had collected enough information, Gary turned around and told everyone in the church they were deceived and put them in their place--threatened to separate them out as a different church. He warned everyone off so they would be speechless going forward He will gather the info and find a nice little package to wrap it all in then drop a bomb of some kind. Never underestimate the power of persuasion when it comes to a sociopath. This has been done repeatedly and is merely information gathering--- finding names which WILL NOT be kept private. Time after time people have been discredited and trashed publicly. Not that it matters what that charlatan says--its just that he is the one who has muzzled everyone and he can't muzzle the people here.

That is the beauty of the anonymity whether you agree or not--this forum would not be here if people had used their real names all along.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2018 04:18AM by Cloudwatcher.

I have been told that communication boxes are being set up at various churches where members can put their hurts down and it can be unsigned or signed. They especially want the ones that came into the fellowship prior to 1983 to express themselves and since so many have trust issues they are picking young ministries to oversee them. Members can only find out about what is going on by listening to restricted communications. They are being told it is a new day. Howmidoing I understand what you are saying. I am torn about it. However experience has taught me the same thing it has taught Puddington. We have been taught to mistrust and I do not want to communicate my innermost hurts to someone who has bought into the TLW mantra. I will have to think about it, I do not want to give them information that can be used against myself or others. I guess they do not want anymore to leave. We will see what happens in the next while. Perhaps the leadership is going to abandon a sinking ship if they can not patch things up with bandaids

Approximately ten years ago I was told by a former member of Apco that in the mid-90's G & M conducted one of those 'speak honestly without fear of retribution' sessions. He was a part of it. Apco members spoke one by one of what they felt the biggest problem in the fellowship was at the time. Most of them went down predictable lines: "People playing church," "not enough commitment to G & M" etc.
He took their promise at face value, and took the risk of saying what he actually thought--that G & M were far too controlling, and it was stifling the fellowship. About a month or two later Marilyn confronted him, told him he was 'no longer family.' He was removed from his position as a pastor shortly thereafter and basically shunned.
Again, there is no reason to trust that this is an honest attempt to make things right. Has Gary, or anyone in his orbit, admitted to specific wrongdoing (covering for Rick, misuse of church funds, beating the 'sheep' etc.)? If so, I'll begin look at this differently.

puddington Wrote:

> 3. Amy Sayer is a Phyllis clone. I trust her
> about as far as I can throw a bus.

Unless your real name is Samson, I'm going to assume you don't trust her at all.

TLW has an almost 70 year history of not doing the right thing when it comes to properly shepherding the sheep. Actions have always spoken louder than 'the word'.

Can a leopard change it's spots, or an Ethiopian the color of his skin?

The saying "Actions speak louder than words" was something I started looking for a few years back that led to me finally and fully cutting from any involvement with TLWF. We were trained on how to "bring down" fulfillment of promises by storming heaven, hitting God under the eye, wrestling with God and not letting go, etc. But at least for me, I also believed all the promises the leadership made to me for all those years. NONE of the promises were ever fulfilled.

When I told my older sister that I realized this whole thing was bullshit and actions speak louder than words, she said: "Oh honey I always knew John & Marilyn were just blowing smoke up your skirt but if I had said that back then you would never have spoken to me again." She was right on everything.

G&M (now just G) are notorious for doing anything and everything to protect themselves or Rick. They get rid of anyone they think might be a threat to them -- either because you speak the truth to them or because you are too popular and have the potential to rock their world.

Gary would have to admit from the pulpit that he realizes that he is complicit in wrongdoing, especially as it pertains to Rick, and he would have to spell out what he is admitting to. With that admission comes his heartfelt repentance to the flock he has so damaged. Until that happens, it is all just more bullshit. Nothing that is being said about trying to fix things is new. I think they just hope that a younger generation won't remember and will be ripe for their con job,

There is mention that Gary is seeking information from former members. How is he communicating and who is he communicating to? I haven't seen any communications along that line.

Howmidoing -- it is incorrect to assume that anyone who does not communicate directly with TLWF is afraid to confront the perpetrator. I am not afraid of those people. Their power in the earth or on the legal level is minuscule at best. I would suggest doing some homework as suggested by the moderator or by reviewing the history of this forum before making allegations against its members.

Challenging victims for the way they handle the information of their abuse is really a harsh and unnecessary thing to do.

I distrust any new day or promises to make it all better. I say that until Gary, Rick, and all those in power come forward and tell it all and not be restrictive communications it is all worthless words. That is hiding behind smoke. Why should I open up and write to them what they did. Years ago I did that and I was told we do not want to hear from you. And Never again will I trust what they say. Bandaids do not work, and I and all of us here are people deserving to believe that we are not a bunch of Plan B's or not worth anything but to be used, abused and rejected and tossed away like trash

Onion Wrote:

> Challenging victims for the way they handle the
> information of their abuse is really a harsh and
> unnecessary thing to do.

Yes

Road to Damascus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I distrust any new day or promises to make it all
> better. I say that until Gary, Rick, and all those
> in power come forward and tell it all and not be
> restrictive communications it is all worthless
> words. That is hiding behind smoke. Why should I
> open up and write to them what they did. Years ago
> I did that and I was told we do not want to hear
> from you. And Never again will I trust what they
> say. Bandaids do not work, and I and all of us
> here are people deserving to believe that we are
> not a bunch of Plan B's or not worth anything but
> to be used, abused and rejected and tossed away
> like trash

Exactly