Didn’t Rick move one of his victims from LA to Shiloh and then back to LA? Having an affair the whole time? Isn’t this an addtional crime? Transporting a minor across state lines for sexual relations?

We have an opportunity here for this forum to provide real healing, not replacing any professional help, but to substantially supplement it. For some it might be the only help they get.

The most important part for that healing to take place is the realization that we are not to blame for any abuse we may have suffered. (Others may want to consider restitution if the shoe is on the other foot--something others have pursued after realizing their own transgressions.)

We live in a world plagued by trap doors. We just happened to have stepped through the unmarked one known as TLW. What we thought was one thing turned out to be something far different. Trouble brewed slowly along the way, but as obedient children, when told to cover our eyes we did.

Our real relationships were always with those in the trenches and never with our taskmasters. We toiled (and played) together over so many years that all the denials we were asked to accept we just shelved as best we could and, like snatching the honeycomb, enjoyed the company of our brethren wherever we found it.

Coming together here can be a big step in recovery if we choose. Although professional help is available, that professional probably did not partake of our particular flavor of insanity, something we unfortunately developed a taste for.

Openness and acceptance is mandatory for those wishing to divulge painful experiences in a group setting. Taking that step is no small thing. Bringing to light what has been carefully concealed in darkness takes courage, and will not take place in an arena tainted by various shades of gray.

Hopefully we can feel free enough to expose our wounds and have those who are healed help to dress them. By so doing we can come together and move forward to enjoy the pie-on-our-plate we were told was reality--that the kingdom is relationships and we are the proof.

kBOY:

Please read the relevant research.

You might read "Cults in Our Midst" by Singer.

"Influence" by Robert Cialdini.

"The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen

Or you can click through on links that have been posted on this thread.

The thought reform and coercive persuasion used by destructive cults is not rekevabt to "Stockholm Syndrome." And it's not relevant to a conventional marriage, unless you specifically are referring to an abusive controlling marriage/relationship, e.g. O.J. Simpson and battered woman's syndrome.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This is the section within the Books page that includes material about coercive persuasion, thought reform and influence techniques used to gain undue influence.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This is the Books page section about battered women and abusive controlling relationships.

Please do some reading.

Many people that leave destructive cults never do the reading and research to sort through their experience and contextualize what happened within the framework of historical information concerning destructive cults. Often such people feel my group is unique and somehow not like the others. The same people at times have recovery issues that may not be resolved.

It's best to read the existing body of books and research rather than to try to reinvent the wheel.

See [www.culteducation.com]

There are some great articles on recovery in this database subsection.

walknntalkn:

The books and research cited all delve into how cult leaders exploit the vulnerabilities of people who are looking for answers, have problems, are experiencing personal pain.

The common thread in many cult recruitment situations is that people are going through some personal difficulties, which makes them more vulnerable to coercive persuasion and cult recruitment techniques than people that are not experiencing a similar rough patch in life.

Cult recruitment is nuanced and the research reflects this and the books cited discuss this in detail through personal accounts and detailed research.

We all have personal problems and vulnerabilities. Cult leaders are quite good at exploiting the cracks in people's lives/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2018 06:38PM by rrmoderator.

kBoy:

"Although professional help is available, that professional probably did not partake of our particular flavor of insanity, something we unfortunately developed a taste for."

This statement is misleading and not helpful.

There are professionals that provide counseling for former cult members that are themselves former cult members. For example Wellspring Retreat in Ohio that was founded by Dr. Paul Martin, a clinical psychologist who was once a member of a group like Living Word Felloship.

There are also workshops and support groups provided for former cult members.

If you had done the research you would know this and that no one independently develops a taste for being abused and controlled, but is rather manipulated and conditioned to accept such a situation by a predatory leader.


You are not helping people here by pontificating and providing misleading and incorrect information.

If you don't want to recognize what happens in destructive cults and sort out your experience through research please don't compound that mistake by encouraging others to ignore the historical facts and research gathered and published.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2018 06:35PM by rrmoderator.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have close friends with decades of involvement
> in TLWF in leadership roles and they would not
> even consider looking at this website, much less
> researching cults. I suspect we have spent
> hundreds of hours in the last ten years discussing
> our involvement in TLWF. My poor wife, who was
> never in TLWF, just rolls her eyes whenever the
> subject comes up.

My wife rolls her eyes and sighs deeply. I think it is her way of conveying that I should take my experiences/stories/thoughts about the cult to the forum and spare her. She is probably more thankful for this forum than I am. It frees up a lot her time :)

"It's just that whenever I start talking about ________, I just get carried away. I lose all track of time. Well, I could go on for hours, but I'll probably start to bore you."
-Ted Striker

After reading a number of books on cults and researching on the internet, the thing that surprised me the most was how alike they all were. I assumed my experience in TLWF was unique, and nothing at all like other groups. The techniques the leaders use in all groups - not just Christian - are remarkably similar. There are even other fringe Christian groups out there with Shilohs who also think they are the center of the universe. Another big eye opener was the similarity in the damage done to followers. If you enjoy history, you might check out "When Prophesy Fails" by Leon Festinger, Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter. It examine groups over hundreds of years. It's surprising how human nature will double down in the face of an obvious lie - e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979. Our experience in TLWF is certainly not new and as rrmoderator has suggested, we will be well served by knowing more about the existing body of knowledge before re-inventing the wheel.

Continuing with Larry's thread, as pointed out earlier, cults are merely a subset of all sales pitches, no matter what the venue, going all the way back to the Garden of Eden debacle.

Religion, politics, finance, etc. have all implemented versions of the techniques sited, carefully grooming them for their intended audience.

Even though certain religions may claim more legitimacy than others, they have all marketed their brand and sold a bill of goods, with most if not all, failing to deliver on their promises.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn’t Rick move one of his victims from LA to
> Shiloh and then back to LA? Having an affair the
> whole time? Isn’t this an additional crime?
> Transporting a minor across state lines for sexual
> relations?

It wouldn't surprise me if there were many. He had carte blanche. I just don't understand the mandatory reporters who did not report. Clergy, nurses, teachers--all mandatory and they could all face jail time if this comes to light. Who would risk that? Who would put blinders on? This really gets to the crux of the very intense long-term mind control in TLWF--that the same person who might report their neighbor--stands by and does nothing in this church. It's a conundrum for sure.

walknntalkn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rrmoderator:
>
> I am suspicious of your unilateral, authoritarian
> point of view. Surely there is some nuance and
> complexity in the variety of reasons for why
> people join cults to begin with. You're right that
> the cult leader is the true villain, but he
> wouldn't be a leader if he didn't have followers,
> and I think that trying to understand why people
> join cults beyond just "deceptive and predatory
> manipulative practices"––which are obviously in
> play, but do not themselves always provide the
> complete picture––is a wholly worthwhile endeavor,
> and it's somewhat cultish of you to suggest
> otherwise. Is the purpose of this forum to provide
> a platform for discussion in the effort of
> arriving at knowledge, understanding, and truth,
> or is it merely to evangelize and demand
> acquiescence to your supposedly expert and
> definitive perspective on the subject?

While I appreciate the many excellent resources provided by the Cult Education Institute, not all of us want or need to search its databases. After what we went through and the damage most of us sustained, many of us just don't want any part of church again, even if it's the best church on the planet. Years after I left the cult, I did want to find out what a “normal” church was like where the minister was held accountable within the church. I watched this phenomenon very carefully in one particular denominational church I attended for a few years and saw how transparent the church leadership was. It was quite the juxtaposition from the cult and the church membership itself seemed healthy and strong. The pastor was a biblical scholar and historian. His messages were not only interesting, but they inspired hope (never guilt or punishment). I ultimately decided that church just wasn’t for me. I made that decision of my own free will and no one begrudged me that decision or threatened me with life in a black hole for the rest of my life if I left. I sought (and seek) spirituality in my life but learned to find that from other sources. Finding a sense of community was of vital importance to me, but ironically I didn’t find that in a church setting.
I have had years of therapy (by therapists well-versed in cults), read books, and discussed the cult issue with the afore-mentioned pastor, who understood cult dynamics and made every effort to assure me that I was safe and had anonymity in this church. He understood that I felt “different” and did not at any point tell me that attending church was the answer. Amazingly, I found him to be trustworthy and that fact alone brought me tremendous healing.
That said, like walknntalkn, I also wonder why rrmoderator (and to some extent Larry Bobo) seems to push his own agenda and insist that unless kBoy utilizes the research he (rrmoderator) provides in this website, he is basically (to quote a phrase) out of the flow. Do we also need to add that kBOY is deceived? I don’t think so. Most, if not all of us, have arrived at this forum in various stages of post-cult trauma. I have not read rrmoderator’s suggested research, and I don’t need to. I have found and continue to find healing from other sources (including from the various posters on this forum). It’s only been in the last six years or so that I have been able to settle into my life. I found that acceptance has been vital to moving on with my life.
Peace to one and all!