I heard through the grapevine that in the service yesterday morning at Church of the Living Word North Hills, Rick Holbrook and Lorena Holbrook were placed on administrative leave. The official message seems to be from Gary "Hey, it's come to my attention that some of the people in this church might not be happy, and that they perceive a hierarchy in the church and feel they can't say anything about it. Rick and Lorena both have been placed on leave, so we can get to the bottom of this" Those people were also encouraged to send letters about what they think about the situation.

Now, keep in mind, this is grapevine information, but let me respond to it directly as if it were true:

This is not real change, this is a loyalty test, and they've done it before. Back when Rick and Lorena were caught and exposed, they removed Rick from power, and they then encouraged people to write in and express their feelings on the matter. Well, I know of people who wrote letters at that time and were a) never responded to about it, and b) felt like they were completely sidelined once Rick had returned, and c) Rick was reinstalled in power after a brief timeout. No real accountability, just more dodging and power games. Is there any reason to think that this time is any different than all the other times Rick was placed in a time out?

Gary, let me also ask you this: Will you be asking the forgiveness of the people (your people) for all of your wrongdoing? You're the one who has been Rick's apologist all these years, making things right and taking the heat when he couldn't keep himself in line. You created the environment that allowed Rick to continue on with his dirty ways. For 30 years you've been telling people to "put it on a shelf", "give it to the lord", "stay positive", "no sniveling", etc. You built the collective mindset that allowed people like Rick to operate freely. You raised him up, brought him in front of the people, and told them that this was their leader. That was you that did that Gary. You've made plenty of choices over the years that implicate you in all of this. You can't scape goat Rick for all your sins. Aren't you the leader of the church? Who's in control of this thing if not you? If you really want a "New Day", then you need to tell all your people what you've been up to all these years. All the lying, and the control, and abuse. Confess it all, and then you might have a chance at a new day. You can distance yourself from Rick, but you can't distance yourself from all that you've personally done and been a part of. You're a key player in this story, and you need to face what you've done.

Anyone else have something to add to this? Any additional news?

Well said, cultfree. I have heard now from two separate sources about the announcement in service yesterday of Rick & Lorena being put on administrative leave. I was at first very excited, but I too wonder if this is just another one of Rick's "timeouts" at the end of which he'll be put right back into his usual position of power. I think we have all seen enough to know that it is more than likely that nothing will actually be done about him. I, too, have known of letters being written to Gary & Marilyn outlining people's concerns/issues over Rick's being put back into leadership after his affair with Lorena and other very serious acts of misconduct, which went unanswered and for which those people were immediately sidelined, fired or, at a minimum, shunned. I also know of people being fired for even questioning Rick's spending of church funds. Where has the accountability been all of these years? And why address them only now? Was it Marilyn's desire to keep her son in power that kept Gary from doing the right thing, or was he complicit in all of it? People who said they would never support Rick & Lorena's relationship became the very people that later defended it, even touted its "rightness". It's like they are all spineless robots.

What is so heartbreaking to me is that even if this is a legitimate attempt to set things right, how many people have already been irreparably damaged because no true attempt has EVER been made heretofore? People have been silenced again and again. There has been a huge exodus of people leaving the Fellowship because we became sick and tired of never having a voice, ON TOP of being abused by leadership in the name of discipleship, "divine order" or whatever the latest buzz terminology was. I have to say, even if things do change it is too late for me. I will never set foot in one of those churches again. There is too much water under the bridge, too many bodies left in the wake of their toxic leadership and abuse of power.

Does anyone remember Gary bringing that word about his mother and how the church she was attending didn't see her for a year and yet didn't ever reach out to her? He was blasting them for it, and I remember thinking, "Uh...do you and I attend the same church? Because that kind of shit happens here ALL THE TIME." There just seems to be no genuine concern for people. I don't know if it's even possible for the Fellowship to change because at this point, their way of doing things is so engrained in its culture. You would have to remove 98% of the current leaders to eliminate all of the toxic pastors. It has to change at a core level to even be salvageable, and if history is any indication, that just isn't going to happen. Still, I hope for some measure of justice. Rick & Lorena being permanently eliminated from leadership would be just that.

I posted a number of links. To critiques of the mind control/brainwashing/coercive persuasion theories. I recall slanjt's post. She was interested in the truth. Not speculation. I agree. Fool me once in the LW. I won't be fooled again. Into jumping on the speculation bandwagon.


If you read the links. You would have learned that there is a shift in terminology. From cult to new religions. Among researchers. Many of us. Have associated cults with brainwashing/mind control theories. Maybe that's inaccurate.

Much of the suggested reading list here. For message board readers. Is not current research. It's 20-30 years old with exception of Hassen who has been challenged. For flawed research.

A few sociologist researcher's undercut claims. Of former member's stories. That they can't be trusted. I continue to be undercut here. It's not going to stop me. From seeking the truth.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I continue to be undercut here. It's not
> going to stop me. From seeking the truth.

Good luck in your journey.

I forgot to include link below. In my last post. Rebecca Moore is well acquainted with Jonestown. She doesn't believe the tragedy. Resulted from brainwashing. She gives some alternative ideas.


[www.independent.co.uk]

I was in the church services in the Valley when this happened with Ric the last time. I remember thinking FINALLY there will be accountability for this mans terrible actions! Well I certainly was disappointed. Gary ended up "repenting" to us all because he had been a bad father to Ric. Geez. All of the words that Gary brought in and around this time were so harsh. I felt like I was getting MY ass kicked...I couldn't understand why the congregation was being treated so harshly and Ric got to have a nice little time off. It was all so interesting to watch. I had many friends that were so appalled by Ric and were literally fed up with him. (Mind you this was not the first time that they had been thru this), and then to watch them do a complete 180. It just amazes me that these people were, and still, are making excuses for this man.

I too feel like Cultfree, that Gary has a huge responsibility in all of this. He has covered up for Ric forever. Kind of amazing that "The Father" of the organization would knowingly allow someone who is an abuser/deviant/etc., to be in leadership...to be able to continue abusing the sheep.
It is just so horrible.
I hope that maybe this time will be the final straw...but sadly I doubt it.
At best the whole organization will crash and burn, at least, I'm hopeful there will be another big exodus.

I spoke with a former leader of TLWF who knows the details of disciplinary action and one aspect of administrative leave is that Rick and Lorena will continue to be paid. So basically, this is a paid vacation.

An article I found interesting concerning the handling of a big shot at the Met. No issue of statute of limitations in an effort to avoid a lawsuit. No leave with pay. Just straight up discipline with an open acknowledgment of substantiating sexual abuse. Because most workers at the TLWF are volunteers, for the purpose of classifications under the law, I understand that volunteers are considered "volunteer employees."

Last Updated Mar 12, 2018 8:46 PM EDT

NEW YORK -- The Metropolitan Opera said it fired music director emeritus James Levine Monday after three month investigation found "credible evidence" that he "engaged in sexually abusive" conduct toward artists. It said more than 70 people were interviewed in the probe.

In a statement, the Met said the investigation found that Levine, 74, abused "vulnerable artists in the early stages of their careers," adding that it would be impossible for him to continue his working relationship. The statement said rumors that opera's board of directors were involved in a cover-up were "completely unsubstantiated."

Levine was suspended by the Met in December pending the investigation.

"We recognize the great concerns over these issues that have been expressed by the Met community both inside and outside of the opera house, and wish to provide the assurance that the Met is committed to ensuring a safe, respectful and harassment-free workplace for its employees and artists," the statement concluded.

Levine made his Met debut in 1971 and became one of the signature artists in the company's 135-year history, conducting 2,552 performances and ruling over its repertoire, orchestra and singers as music or artistic director from 1976 until he stepped down two years ago due to Parkinson's disease. He became music director emeritus and remained head of its young artists program but was suspended on Dec. 3 after accounts in the New York Post and The New York Times of sexual misconduct dating to the 1960s.

I am curious as to why there is such a debate over the proper use of words such as "brainwashing" and "mind control." If something is taken to a court of law, the use of psychological methods for crowd control, influencing people, controlling people, etc., would have to be proved. There's no big win here to deciding what term we are going to use for methods that were used by church leadership, that had a profound effect on the day-to-day conduct of individuals, that controlled what most members of the group did with their time, money, children, marriages, pregnancies, etc., and that resulted in egregious damage to most if not all adherents to the group. Let's make up our own word -- let's just call it bullshit.

In a criminal setting I suppose making sure every word is correct has some importance because sentencing is linked to specifically defined crimes. Damages in civil cases may need specifically defined words. But for now, we are talking together on this forum and we all know what the hell we are referring to. When something goes into a legal document I am sure the lawyers and psychological experts will have the current terminology just right.

Nickle&Dimed is a silly distraction. This is a public forum. We can't shut the gates against all trolls because they multiply like cockroaches in their mistaken belief they stand for something righteous when we all know, those they represent smell of something deeply rotten at their core and at the core of the leadership of the entire fellowship.

I do hope that members get told the unvarnished truth and they rise up to say that Rick and Lorena do not get paid and that charges are brought and that all involved in enabling this to go on and all involved in this type of behavior are exposed and are held accountable. Sorry for the run on sentence.

This is my first time posting on the forum after glancing at it every once in a while over the past year or so. Although I didn´t have as difficult of a time as some of you, I did have my share of truly painful experiences ¨growing up in the church¨. Most of the adults in the church I grew up in are truly amazing people. They ¨came into the church¨ in a very unique time period (the 60´s and 70´s), and regardless of some of the crazy $%it that´s gone down in TLWF, they originally joined because they felt a love for God. Many of them had children (the generation to which I belong). Naturally, one could expect that some members of this younger generation believe so fervently not because of ¨revelation¨, but because the church is all they´ve ever known.

The reason I´m writing this is to encourage any young adults (or older adults) to follow your intuition and heart regarding what to do with your future. For years, I struggled with so much cognitive dissonance as to whether or not I was ¨following God´s will¨. It really messed with my head. Much of this was born out of the groupthink mentality that unless you are donating an insane amount of your time you must not be on the right path. I would encourage any of you to travel, see other cultures, spend time in nature, or volunteer for the homeless or disadvantaged youth. That may help you to contextualize your faith more than any religious organization can.