"Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honorable, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." (A quote from some book)

It is sad that the fellowship never made any attempt to take ANY of this advice to heart.

Some interesting food for thought...Knowing that TLWF monitors this site and reports its findings back to Kevin and Gary, isn't it telling that rather than using the information they find here to help fix what is broken and wrong about the church, they instead threaten and persecute those who speak out? If they spent even a fraction of the effort they put into the persecution of those who are exposing what is wrong, into using the information to rectify the deep problems in the organization, perhaps there would be hope for change. The mere fact that they use what they see posted on here to vilify former members is proof of how Godless the organization is. Where is the compassion? Where is the humility? Where is the love?

These leaders that we literally entrusted our lives to DO NOT even have shepherds' hearts. It makes me incredibly sad that they care more about their precious organization than they do about the people. If they really cared about the people, they would reach out to those who have posted on here who have been so hurt, damaged and disillusioned and say, "We are sorry this happened to you. How can we fix it? What can we change?" To instead attack the victims is further evidence of their status as abusers.

-reveal



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2018 12:23AM by reveal.

Reveal - Excellent point. I was thinking about that in the context of the recent findings on the Catholic Church. The organization is under fire for their protection of the perpetrators, and theit complicity in hiding what was done and allowing the perpetrators to stay in position so they can harm additional parishoners.

That exact description is what the TLWF has done for decades with both JRS about his biological son and even more so with Rick Holbrook and his constant, ongoing, multiple affairs and (what I believe to be) sexual assaults on girls and women.

I SO want the "MeToo" movement to begin exposing church leaders. It is long past time for it to stop.

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reveal - Excellent point. I was thinking about
> that in the context of the recent findings on the
> Catholic Church. The organization is under fire
> for their protection of the perpetrators, and
> theit complicity in hiding what was done and
> allowing the perpetrators to stay in position so
> they can harm additional parishoners.
>
> That exact description is what the TLWF has done
> for decades with both JRS about his biological son
> and even more so with Rick Holbrook and his
> constant, ongoing, multiple affairs and (what I
> believe to be) sexual assaults on girls and women.
>
> I SO want the "MeToo" movement to begin exposing
> church leaders. It is long past time for it to
> stop.


I heard today about a group of victims suing a Northern Virginia school for permitting and covering up sexual abuse of students in the 70's
TLW is NOT exempt from liability for its crimes and all it will take is a small group of victims to come forward and the whole house of cards will implode.
Whats strange to me is the lack of people willing to formalize the allegations.
I finds this part of the psychological response to abuse very interesting. If someone can expound on why we continue to live with the pain and betrayal rather than see the perps punished I would appreciate it? My suspicion is that the benefit of the public display (trial) and the uncertainty associated with winning is a deterrent. Put another way, there is no reward or award that will make the abuse go away.

One issue is that people feels they can't "prove" what happened to them because it was just the perpetrator and victim with no other people as witnesses, no cameras (hopefully), etc.

We all need to understand that our testimony is evidence. At the beginning stages of a complaint, you make an allegation. That allegation is supported by your testimony. There are many ways to support your allegation. For example, if you communicated what happened to another person, in a diary, in a text message, or any other type of communication, that is called a "contemporaneous record." That document or the person you talked to, is admissable as support for your testimony.

I have heard the word "hearsay" mentioned many times as if when something is hearsay it is bull. That is not what hearsay means. And there are approximately 34 different exceptions to the hearsay rule. Hearsay in its purest form, is not allowed in as testimony because it is considered unreliable. But if any one of the 34 exceptions is present, the hearsay gets in as reliable. The exceptions make it reliable.

I have heard hearsay spoken in a snearing voice from various pulpits. I believe that is just another intimidation tactic.

After an assault, people are traumatized and scared and often embarrassed. Coming forward is difficult and takes a lot of courage. If someone has a story to tell about sexual assault, abuse of power, intimidation against reporting sexual misconduct, anything along that line - in CALIFORNIA - I would suggest they call Gloria Allred. I'm not kidding. Her office is great. They will call you back right away. If they don't want to take your case, they can probably refer you to someone they trust and that would be a very good reference.

Sometimes people get scared away because maybe they have spoken to the wrong attorney. Unless an attorney is trained to bare knuckle fight in court, that attorney won't be the right one to help you. People need someone who knows what it takes not only to take a case to court, but to prepare for intense litigation and all that it entails. Your attorney should make you feel safe. There is no reason for the victim to feel re-victimized by the legal process if they have the right attorney fighting for them.

With the "Me Too" movement, the exposure of Catholic priests in PA (and everywhere), the focus on getting people free and healed up from cults (Time Magazine just reviewed 2 new novels about cults; Leah Remini's Scientology exposure show will start airing season 3 soon; People Investigates just did a series on cults) - NOW is the time for us to work together to put an end to clergy sexual abuse once and for all. If the church hides the abuse and let's the clergy person continue to get away with it, then the church needs to be destroyed as well as destroying the ability of the clergy abuser.

I was physically assaulted and badly injured about 2 years ago. I didn't report it because I didn't think anyone would believe me. I reported it a year later after a witness came forward who had heard the perpetrator bragging about trying to kill me. It is still in motion. I was terrified to report it and after I reported it I had some very rough days/weeks because it was scary and I was all alone. I obtained dozens of domestic violence restraining orders during my 25 years as a family law attorney. I was tough, smart, strong. I was still terrified.

No one on this forum has to be alone. If you don't want to post to the entire group, send a Private Message to whoever you feel you can identify with. There is help and there is hope.

Onion -

Is there a legal difference between a regular man sexually harassing a female and say a church authority (elder, pastor) harrasing a congregant? Where the church leader abuses his power to influence a woman church member? Does this constitute a special legal situation? Much more severe than if regular people were involved? Is the church liable as well?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2018 06:54AM by puddington.

Everything depends on the context. If a regular guy makes a pass at a regular woman in every day life, that is just a pass. If that same regular man, touches that regular woman then it can be considered assault. If the touching is sexual then that adds a sexual assault aspect to it.

If someone with power or authority uses that to take advantage of someone who works for him, is his congregant, etc. that can make any sexual conduct an assault or a rape if the woman either did not agree to the sexual conduct OR if her will was overpowered by the postion and power of the perpetrator. If your ability to choose and agree to a sex act has been hindered or stopped then you can say the sex was without agreement and is therefore rape.

Blatant examples of rape based on an inability to say yes or now are when a doctor rapes someone whose under anesthesia, or a date puts something in a woman's drink, or someone is really drunk, and as always, when someone feels they have no choice because of the threat of reprisal.

Another viewpoint is also that if you were going to sue someone in civil court, there are probably many, many other types of "wrongs" that would be included in clergy-congregant sexual abuse. Intentional infliction of emotional distress. Fraud. Abuse of power. And many other actions depending on the circumstances. There are probably additional crimes that can be charged within the context too but that's not my familiar area.

Remember - An underage person is presumed NOT to have given consent because they are "below the age of consent." Some of these bastards like to start on women while they are still underage girls and that opens up another whole list of criminal and civil wrongdoing.

I can't give legal advice because I am not a licensed attorney any more. BUT - I still have a Doctorate of Laws (Juris Doctor) and I can give my opinion and brainstorm with y'all and I am very good at sifting through bullshit to find the nugget of truth (or proof of wrongdoing).

Maybe the LW will join the #ChurchToo movement

[www.motherjones.com]

Puddington - YES YES YES! I just posted that Mother Jones article on facebook where I still have a lot of church people as "friends" (some are family members even). I would love to see everyone who has a story of abuse and assault would take a stand. I wonder if the women would outnumber Cosby and Weinstein. I think they probably would - and I hear the abuse is continuing even today.

#churchtoo YES!

I hope I am not the only one who answered the latest confidential TLWF survey this way. Boy, I'll be in real trouble!

Name something you have received by serving Christ in the Flesh
PTSD