changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Tmason Wrote:
> >
> > > The SI Statements (available on the same CA
> > > website) show a change in leadership.
> >
> > Yes, Rick Holbrook is now listed as Chief
> > Executive Officer, Karen Seboldt as Secretary
> and
> > Steve Seboldt as Treasurer. The latest
> Statement
> > of Information (SI) was filed January 18 of
> this
> > year.
>
> This is for the Church of the Living Word. So
> Matt W. reports to Rick?

Changedagain, apparently it's just a corporation. Nothing spiritual about it. So as long as it's a family member in charge, there is no spiritual qualification involved.

NickleandDimed:

The terms "brainwashing" or "mind control" are pop culture labels for what is technically known as coercive persuasion, thought reform or the use of influence techniques to gain undue influence. Undue influence is a recognized fact as established by law in courts in the US and around the world.

I have been qualified, accepted and testified as an expert regarding such techniques used by destructive authoritarian groups.

History is filled with examples of the undue influence of such groups and there have been many court rules. The database of the Cult Education Institute includes research papers, court documents and news reports confirming this fact.

To claim that somehow that the history of coercive persuasion and influence techniques used to gain undue influence is a "myth" is ignorance at best and reflects a lack of serious research or at worst denial and an effort to obscure the facts and engage in apology for groups that use such methods to hurt and exploit people.

Thank you. From my personal experience and years of working to free myself from the coercive influences, I know what you say to be true.

Onion - I agree with you, coercive persuasion is something we know from personal experience. I distinctly remember when TLWF deception bubble popped and I came back to my senses. I had to laugh at myself for believing that if I obeyed the leadership, I would bypass death - especially when the ones offering this incredible power obviously did not possess it themselves in the first place to be able to give it to anybody else. They were dying left and right. Now TLWF is back on the theme of obedience - I don't know what the new promised carrot for compliance is. Perhaps they have taken it down a notch to just ruling and reigning with Gary. Again, you can not give away something you do not possess except in the vain imaginations of your followers.

Latest messages from Church of Persuasive Coercion (COPC):

Repent To Remove Disobedience

Obedience: His Standard For Judgment

Our Survival Is Based On Obedience

Confirmation — The Safeguard For Our Absolute Obedience

The Two-Edged Sword Of Obedience And Confirmation

Shut Up and Give Me Your Money

Coercive persuasion was rampant in the early days of the Walk and during the expansion of the seventies and early eighties. JRS used "cold reading" during weekly ministry services to wow everyone with his "Word of Knowledge". I believe that this one thing convinced many potential converts that JRS had supernatural, divine powers. He told people that Jesus had personally appeared to him and commissioned him to apostleship. The worship and singing in the Spirit made participants feel spiritually high and extremely open to whatever message followed. The hours of loud, aggressive prayer gave members a vested interest in the outcome. Once people are convinced, trained, submissive and subservient, the rest is easy (for the leader).

As one who has struggled for years to recover from this cult, I can say that without a doubt, techniques were used and are still used by Living Word leaders which are designed to shut down critical thinking. Call it brainwashing, mind control, undue influence, deception or coercive persuasion, the important thing is to become educated in cult leader methodology. This can have a very freeing effect and also help to avoid future problems when confronted with similar con artists.

Thank you to Rick Ross for his explanation regarding brainwashing. The resources avaiable on this website are extremely helpful for those revovering from cult involvement. The forum is invaluable as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2018 06:10AM by GoingRogue.

With all the current sermons on obedience in TLWF, the first thing I want to do is apologize to those who personally knew me, for pointing to obedience to humans, instead of obedience to God. I know I did not do it with malice, believing God and my leaders were one and the same, but nevertheless the devastating results were the same. I also know that much of the fruit in my life during that time was not of the Holy Spirit. I’m especially sorry to those younger who watched my partying as an elder and then found themselves in bondages that they have been unable to break free from. It’s so sad that they now think any attempt to walk with God is just a joke. I know better now, and certainly have a level of freedom I never experienced in TLWF – but I will always be sorry.

As Jesus suggested, it’s always important to look at the fruit to determine if it is a good or bad tree. Deuteronomy 28 says, “If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:…” Jesus later said in John 14,“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” Obviously, obedience is critical to the process. It’s the bait-and switch technique of TLWF that caused me such grief. I know I was far too open to hear “You need a special apostle to tell you what God really means” and then you wake up one day discarded in the ditch. It’s certainly not a new problem, going back to the Garden – will you do exactly what God commands or will you listen to the deception of another who claims they have more insight than God?

For starters, “new revelation” simply does not work – thus the need to take a serious look at the fruit. Since followers were not taught the commands of Jesus, but instead the teaching of men, there is no reference point for comparison – it’s all just one non-functioning belief system compared to another. The dark side that has led to this website is the wounding that takes place so that followers want nothing to do with God or His Body after following this other teaching. The resulting mistrust is such a bondage and did not come from God. The wounded end up running from the very Source that is the only place to find true healing.

I’ve learned in the school of hard knocks that you have to obey the right teaching to get the right result. To tell people that if they just obey - even if it is wrong - God will still bless them, is a simply a lie used to control people. The truth actually matters and it is not tied to a date or spiritual breakthrough. It’s been interesting to me to watch the flack you get when you suggest we read the words the Jesus and put them into practice. Since most of us call ourselves Christians, it would seem like a no-brainer. However, the talons come out when you start to take away power from those who only want to use Jesus for personal gain. It’s no different now than it was with the Pharisees in the early church. Actually, it takes more humility to say listen to Jesus instead of me. Even Jesus said that his words were not his own, but his Father’s.

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the
birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will
precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you
come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you
who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in
poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Obviously, obedience is critical
> to the process. It’s the bait-and switch
> technique of TLWF that caused me such grief. I
> know I was far too open to hear “You need a
> special apostle to tell you what God really means”
> and then you wake up one day discarded in the
> ditch.

Well put.

rrmoderator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NickleandDimed:
>
> The terms "brainwashing" or "mind control" are pop
> culture labels for what is technically known as
> coercive persuasion, thought reform or the use of
> influence techniques to gain undue influence.
> Undue influence is a recognized fact as
> established by law in courts in the US and around
> the world.
>
> I have been qualified, accepted and testified as
> an expert regarding such techniques used by
> destructive authoritarian groups.
>
> History is filled with examples of the undue
> influence of such groups and there have been many
> court rules. The database of the Cult Education
> Institute includes research papers, court
> documents and news reports confirming this fact.
>
> To claim that somehow that the history of coercive
> persuasion and influence techniques used to gain
> undue influence is a "myth" is ignorance at best
> and reflects a lack of serious research or at
> worst denial and an effort to obscure the facts
> and engage in apology for groups that use such
> methods to hurt and exploit people.

Thanks for all your hard work. I agree.