Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
GSchaeff
()
Date: July 01, 2018 04:40AM
NickleandDimed,
FCSLC wasn't breaking any of the rules, they were being honest about a response they had to TLWF.
After all, I believe a wise poster on this forum once said, "I have the same right. Under the rules here. To express myself. As do you. Without you cutting me down. Please don't judge my posts according to. Your point of view."
Edit*
GoingRogue,
Thanks for that. I think all of those warning signs applied when I left.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2018 04:49AM by GSchaeff.
FCSLC wasn't breaking any of the rules, they were being honest about a response they had to TLWF.
After all, I believe a wise poster on this forum once said, "I have the same right. Under the rules here. To express myself. As do you. Without you cutting me down. Please don't judge my posts according to. Your point of view."
Edit*
GoingRogue,
Thanks for that. I think all of those warning signs applied when I left.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2018 04:49AM by GSchaeff.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
puddington
()
Date: July 01, 2018 05:26AM
In this recent message about obedience, Gary sounds an awful lot like Jim Jones. Which begs the question, do you think Gary is capable of enacting a Jonestown style event in the LWF?
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
GoingRogue
()
Date: July 01, 2018 06:19AM
puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In this recent message about obedience, Gary
> sounds an awful lot like Jim Jones. Which begs
> the question, do you think Gary is capable of
> enacting a Jonestown style event in the LWF?
Not sure about that, puddington. I hope not. The problem is that when you subject your free will and mind and heart to a human being, you have abdicated your ability to analyze facts and come to your own conclusions. It becomes nearly impossible to make important decisions in the light of reason. I would not encourage that path for anyone.
-------------------------------------------------------
> In this recent message about obedience, Gary
> sounds an awful lot like Jim Jones. Which begs
> the question, do you think Gary is capable of
> enacting a Jonestown style event in the LWF?
Not sure about that, puddington. I hope not. The problem is that when you subject your free will and mind and heart to a human being, you have abdicated your ability to analyze facts and come to your own conclusions. It becomes nearly impossible to make important decisions in the light of reason. I would not encourage that path for anyone.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 01, 2018 08:53AM
FCSLC Wrote:
> The warnings and threats are what we hated the
> most.
If you removed the element of fear, how many people would have remained in TLWF?
The fear of losing protection from the mob boss in the sky, if nothing else, keeps people in line.
> The warnings and threats are what we hated the
> most.
If you removed the element of fear, how many people would have remained in TLWF?
The fear of losing protection from the mob boss in the sky, if nothing else, keeps people in line.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
GoingRogue
()
Date: July 01, 2018 09:45PM
Inquiry is human; blind obedience brutal. Truth never loses by the one but often suffers by the other.
William Penn
William Penn
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Onion
()
Date: July 01, 2018 11:35PM
I don't imagine a death march at TLWF/Iowa when there is such a "lust" for life, sex, money and the finer things in life. The fear is probably more of a tool to obtain willing participants and take everything they own of value including their will and their bodies.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
puddington
()
Date: July 02, 2018 01:56AM
I suspect you’re correct. Gary wouldn’t want to kill off his cash cow.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 02, 2018 02:22AM
With the persistent indoctrination of his followers, many of them believe that giving him everything they have of value, including their own lives, is the Father's will. That's their interpretation of what it means to be obedient.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
GSchaeff
()
Date: July 02, 2018 03:59AM
I very much agree with the cash cow analogy. I think that Gary cycles into periods of intense submission to keep people insecure and dependent on his uplifting, yet insidiously destructive message.
Listening to my old tapes again, it feels like he manufactures things for his followers to feel insecure, guilty, or humiliated about. Look no further than his latest message to the YASP. "You kids have all this free time now, and you're not giving enough of it to God." He dedicates a service to the kids, and admonishes them in it. That's a textbook example of something you'd see in an abusive relationship. He cycles between guilt and reward like a stick and carrot routine. Actually, you could follow that pattern back through most of his latest messages.
There is intense devotion there though. Being inside, I remember remarking with other members how Jonestown, or scientology, or Hare Krishna were obviously different than us, because they were only mimicking the truth that we knew we had. Looking back, that's not a very good justification.
If TLWF goes down that path, I think there will be warning signs. We'll see things like isolation, and more messages of fear, especially of the "principalities and powers of the outside world." The master plan for Shiloh has already zoned out the land so that they can house almost the entire church population on the grounds. If the satellite churches start converging to Shiloh, I'll be more worried about a Branch Davidian situation. I personally don't think Koresh planned mass suicide, but that paranoia of the outside world sure created a dangerous situation where things went tragically wrong.
Listening to my old tapes again, it feels like he manufactures things for his followers to feel insecure, guilty, or humiliated about. Look no further than his latest message to the YASP. "You kids have all this free time now, and you're not giving enough of it to God." He dedicates a service to the kids, and admonishes them in it. That's a textbook example of something you'd see in an abusive relationship. He cycles between guilt and reward like a stick and carrot routine. Actually, you could follow that pattern back through most of his latest messages.
There is intense devotion there though. Being inside, I remember remarking with other members how Jonestown, or scientology, or Hare Krishna were obviously different than us, because they were only mimicking the truth that we knew we had. Looking back, that's not a very good justification.
If TLWF goes down that path, I think there will be warning signs. We'll see things like isolation, and more messages of fear, especially of the "principalities and powers of the outside world." The master plan for Shiloh has already zoned out the land so that they can house almost the entire church population on the grounds. If the satellite churches start converging to Shiloh, I'll be more worried about a Branch Davidian situation. I personally don't think Koresh planned mass suicide, but that paranoia of the outside world sure created a dangerous situation where things went tragically wrong.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
GoingRogue
()
Date: July 02, 2018 06:29AM
Money, power and playing God seem to be strong motivators for this leader. It's hard to imagine a situation dire enough to cause a suicidal reaction. If the outlook for the LW looked that bleak, he could always take the money and run.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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