changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "For Moses, there was just one covenant that would
> make God the God for him and the people: the
> covenant of Abraham. Moses, however, had not
> circumcised his sons. As a result, God sought to
> put him to death (Exodus 4:24).

Oh, I forgot the circumcision part. Get ready, boys!

Onion Wrote:
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> The fishing lures are set with hidden hooks. The
> "true meaning" of the miserable experience is laid
> out while there is no time to ask reasonable
> questions or consider another way. The
> (purportedly) only door of salvation is creaking
> open. No time to think. The ability for detailed
> reasoning is suspended. The fervor of the crowd
> is amped up and ready to explode. The big show
> will provide a release just in time to confirm "I
> belong here and nowhere else."

Scary, Onion! And all this time I thought that Jesus was the only door to the Father. John 14:6

I believe there is a significant difference between the God of TLWF and the God Jesus spoke of. The God of TLWF promises to elevate followers to ruling over others (which in actuality only happens for those at the top) while directing them to judge, condemn, and exclude others. The God Jesus spoke of encouraged followers to serve others, sharing the good news that God wanted so much to include them in His family that He gave His only begotten son for them. The spirit of these is completely opposite. Jesus said of himself,” 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. He also said,”Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. The “accuser of the brethren” is not God, but Satan.

None of us have a leg to stand on except by the blood of Jesus. When we really feel included by His grace, the last thing we want for others is that they be excluded. Jesus’ words will judge men in the end, but in the meanwhile, the Holy Spirit brings such compassion for every man, so that no one would perish. When the disciples wanted to call down fire on the Samaritans, Jesus rebuked them and said they did not know what spirit they were of. The one who comes to kill, steal, and destroy is the enemy. The one who comes to bring abundant life is Jesus. They are not the same. If I look at the fruit of the last 50 years I’ve known about TLWF, I see zero righteous ruling over others that brings forth the kingdom or any actual effects of “pathetic words of judgment”, except in vain imaginations. A few at the top have established a position over followers that would not be honored elsewhere in the Body and perhaps a few extra bucks - the followers remain in bondage. The pattern is still the thief that comes to kill, steal, and destroy and wants to take the place of God.

This was a PM I was given permission to share:


I was attending YASP around 2004 when a young boy from DC remarked that Gary would always starts summer camp with a word on repentance. "It's just a formula," the boy said, "[Gary] starts with a one or two words (sermons) on repentance so that we all feel guilty, and then he brings one on salvation, so that we feel in sorry. Next he brings one on obedience so that we listen, and then after that one on grace so we feel good when we go home. Don't you guys see that it's always the same thing?" He'd written it all down in his notebook, which we promptly confiscated and handed over to the authorities.

YASP leadership gave the boy a stern talking to about his rebellious nature, and how it was a privilege to sit in the front of the sanctuary. The boy was told that he was being selfish because 'doodling' or otherwise not paying attention distracted Gary, and Gary needed all the support we could give him. I remember seeing the boy cry in the next service that evening. He was in good company. Many people cried that night because the theme of that service was Gary's take on salvation. Tears were encouraged as we collectively realized how much owed to Christ for dying on the cross just so he could return to us as the living word through Gary. Ten bucks if you can guess what the next word (sermon) was about: obedience. Looking back, I'm impressed by how lucid that kid was.

What a brilliant kid, GSchaeff! Too smart to last long in a cult, I would imagine.

BTW, this just in: [garyhargrave.com]

Gary Hargrave:
"Do you want to be under the Lordship of Jesus Christ? Do you want to establish His Kingdom? There is only one way: become and remain obedient."

Obedience, Obedience, Obedience, Obedience etc.
Someone has a one-track mind (hint: it's not God)

larry bobo Wrote:
> If I look at the fruit of the last
> 50 years I’ve known about TLWF, I see zero
> righteous ruling over others that brings forth the
> kingdom or any actual effects of “pathetic words
> of judgment”, except in vain imaginations. A few
> at the top have established a position over
> followers that would not be honored elsewhere in
> the Body and perhaps a few extra bucks - the
> followers remain in bondage.

True

GH. "This Word clarifies what we are to be as a school of prophets and why. God is looking to have a people by which He can distinguish between that which serves Him and that which does not. God is a gracious, just judge, and there is only one distinguishing factor that matters to Him: obedience. This is the basis of His judgments."

Question: How do people know what to be obedient to? Is it obedience to God's commandments in the Bible? Is it obedience to Jesus' commands in the Gospels?

Answer: It's "This Word"...the one being spoken right now in Shiloh. The Living Word. Gary's word.

Is Gary now the arbiter of who is to be judged, based on agreement with and obedience to what he, himself speaks?

I think that I will take my chances with Jesus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2018 06:58AM by GoingRogue.

GH. "This Word clarifies what we are to be as a school of prophets and why. God is looking to have a people by which He can distinguish between that which serves Him and that which does not. God is a gracious, just judge, and there is only one distinguishing factor that matters to Him: obedience. This is the basis of His judgments."

Question: How do people know what to be obedient to? Is it obedience to God's commandments in the Bible? Is it obedience to Jesus' commands in the Gospels?

Answer: It's "This Word"...the one being spoken right now in Shiloh. The Living Word. Gary's word.

Is Gary now the arbiter of who is to be judged, based on agreement with and obedience to what he, himself speaks?

I think that I will take my chances with Jesus.

GoingRogue, was that an exchange from camp that you just quoted?

Sidenote: The sender I quoted has said the boy in their story may not have been from DC. I find it fascinating that this pattern is occurring this year as well. Looking at my old tape collection, it could very well be a pattern.

I wonder what the explanation would be for why God keeps 'imparting' the same words to Gary over and over throughout the years, and in basically the same sequence.