It's quite comforting to relate to all of these posts and private messages that serve to remind me that leaving TLWF had nothing to do with forsaking a word over my life or giving into the battle or baggage I brought with me. Those reasons are always so personal, and I agree with others who stated that this is characteristic of many other cults, and the things that made TLWF unique are actually standard practices among many similar movements.

NickleandDimed I agree that it's through repetition and I'd also say through confuscation the current leaders reinforce but also neither confirm nor deny adherence to the more radical teachings of JRS like dominionism, spiritual transferance, and even witchcraft. It certainly wasn't the case when I attended that Hargrave ever stated JRS was 'wrong' about anything--to do so would likely alienate some members--instead he implied a certain teaching was hyperbolic or not meant literally, only to reverse that position if it became convenient in the future.

For example, JRS was very explicit in the Unfolding Part V, stating that the lordship of christ is a threat to the individual, and elsewhere that an Elijah should never allow an Elisha "to reproduce until you reproduced yourself into him." This was downplayed in some messages Gary gave in the 90s my guess is that siphoning attendance had a lot to do with it. I recently had the pleasure of digging through his words in the 00s and topics like "salvation through submission" were much more pronounced. In this way, it likely seemed the congregation was "pushing through into something new coming on the earth," when really, Gary was using repetition to move back to very familiar ground of submission and control. Almost like a bait and release technique through the decades. Indeed, as the first principles states, "babes must start with milk before they can chew on the meat." TLWF still seems to practice cycling back toward the more controlling words, only to backpeddle if the congregation doesn't bite hard enough.

I remember many of the tapes and ThisWeeks having been edited slightly since the 1970s, especially with newer editions. The most egregious editing also took place in the transcribing and recording departments, often removing entire sections of services. I remember in the 90s a few of us were so perturbed about the editing that we started recording our own services during summer camp. The best parts never made it on tape. One last way I witnessed editing was through the "star system," where those tapes that have enough stars next to the title are not distributed and must be checked out of the library with the listener's name being recorded on a registrar.

Lastly, Reepicheep is not alone in stating that they're monitoring this forum. I have received PMs from others who were identified by members of the church as being rebellious sons and daughters. I encourage anyone who has had members try to silence them let their experiences be heard. This is the sort of thing active members are not privy to. This forum is a great tool for showing the underbelly of that organization.

An enlightening post, GSchaeff.
Thanks for sharing!

GSchaeff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's quite comforting to relate to all of these
> posts and private messages that serve to remind me
> that leaving TLWF had nothing to do with forsaking
> a word over my life or giving into the battle or
> baggage I brought with me. Those reasons are
> always so personal, and I agree with others who
> stated that this is characteristic of many other
> cults, and the things that made TLWF unique are
> actually standard practices among many similar
> movements.

I agree, GSchaeff. It's very traumatic leaving a cult such as LW after many years of dedication and service. And that big breakthrough might be just around the corner, after all. (Bwahaha) And you've already drunk so much kool-aide, what's a little more? You can find yourself wondering if you failed. The short answer is, "NO!!" You did not fail in any way. The opposite, in fact. You were able to overcome a strong delusion perpetrated by evil people. You did this by using your God-given critical thinking skills (skills that had been mocked and suppressed for years).

It's very enlightening to read the literature written about cults and watch exposes like Leah Remini's. There are many documentaries related to cults on Netflix. I recommend "Holy Hell". It chronicles Buddhafield. When watching, I found myself asking, "Did all these guys attend the same cult leader school?"

Here’s an interesting TED talk from a woman who left a cult. There are some differences from hers and the LW. But there are some significant similarities too.

[www.youtube.com]

I appreciate all of you and your thoughtful posts.

I was in the LW group for a very long time and have been out long enough that I didn't think much of it until I started running into situations where something was just lockec up inside of me that I wasn't even aware of. After our bones are picked clean it is amazing to see how a few individuals did and still are benefitting from the continuous hard, hard work of so many. Once free and looking back, it just doesn't make any sense.

DIVINE ORDER

The proper interpretation of 'Divine Order' is:


LOVE begat
more LOVE

and thus

we came
into being

Puddington, that video was inspiring, thank you for sharing. I identified with many of the same experiences she had, and her final statement really resonated with me:
"Even the hardest day of freedom is better than the best day in a cult."

GoingRogue, I had the same thought watching those documentaries. It's an uncomfortable truth to realize that many if not most of those same warning signs other cult survivors beg people to watch for were foundational parts of TLWF.

On that note, someone sent me a PM about Gary's properties with a point I had not considered until now. From what I can gather, Gary was a police officer before joining TLWF. Among his other properties, he now owns a home in Hawaii priced around $3.5 Million by sites like Zillow or Trulia. It seems Gary might have had another business called Isaac Systems Inc in the 80s, but it's most likely an uncomfortable truth that Gary accumulated the lion's share of this personal wealth from the pulpit.

This information was gathered from a simple google search of his name, on sites that archive public data like this one: [publicrecords.directory]
*note, you must scroll down to "Gary Allen Hargrave"

The data could be incomplete or inaccurate in cases, although it is likely the case that his Hawaii property as well as a number in California are properties currently/formerly in his name. Additionally, some properties appear to have been sold between trustees such as Marilyn, Kevin Hargrave, and the Hargrave Family Trust. Why he would sell the same property multiple times between trusts is perplexing to say the least.

Some of those properties are the old Blix street properties, and I'm reminded of a previous poster who mentioned that when Anaheim was shut down, the congregation was denied the chance to buy it from TLWF. Instead, the property was absorbed by one of the TLWF trusts. This being unverified information, it falls under what I would call "smoke" versus "fire" in terms of wrong-doing. That stated, combine this data with some of the rumors circulating these forums and it might qualify as "very smokey" to say the least.

What were the beliefs about homosexuality in the church during the 70's and 80's?

GSchaeff Wrote:

> Additionally, some properties appear to have been
> sold between trustees such as Marilyn, Kevin
> Hargrave, and the Hargrave Family Trust. Why he
> would sell the same property multiple times
> between trusts is perplexing to say the least.

strange, but not surprising

Changedagain, it could be a way to move money around between trusts. I remember hearing complaints about when people wrote 'APCO Trust' in a check memo the money wouldn't go where leadership wanted it at the time. From what I can gather, it's illegal to sell a property to yourself at a markup so again it's perplexing to say the least.
All in all, I counted about a dozen properties solely held in Gary's name from the 2000s to the present. His last house in Hawaii sold for $3M. Isaac systems sold in '90s for approx. $500K. Two on Blix Street appear to have been sold between '07-'09 for around $700K each, with another on Blix street sold in '14 by Gary and purchased by the Hargrave Family Trust when it was valued around $800,000. It's now worth $1.2M.

Again, this may be incomplete or inaccurate but it's by no means the only property Gary resides in--rather what he appears to have in his name. He also stays in a condo at TLW, one at Shiloh, and in a large residence at Monte Siao in Brazil, none of which appear to be in his name.

TKNC, it is my understanding that any individual outed as LGBT during that time was shunned from TLWF to include Marilyn's own family. They seem to have softened on that subject in the past few years, although anyone identified as LGBT would be expected to abstain from openly expressing their life choices.