acesandates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lastly, in my experience and belief, I do not
> believe JRS was a false prophet or false ministry,
> money and property issues be damned. Because what
> i experienced, beginning in the early 70s in San
> Diego, Anaheim, Southgate, Sepulveda was the
> return of the apostolic anointing.

Acesandates, you seem to continue to use your feelings as proof of apostolic anointing. Here is the test for true and false prophets according to Jesus: Matthew 7:15-20. NIV
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

> Those churches were solidly packed, and the presence
> of the Spirit was rich, especially during the Feasts.
> For me, it was a goddamn joy and I'm thankful that its
> spirit went deep into me.

Not sure how the churches being "solidly packed" is proof of truth or anointing. There are many megachurches that are packed during multiple services every Sunday. Does that mean that they are teaching a true word? I doubt it. Of course, you can believe whatever you like about JRS, but that doesn't make it true. Many people who post on this topic here have seen their families torn apart and destroyed. A daughter posted about reading her mother's diary after she had passed away, and of the terrible things that she had gone through. People lost their life savings because JRS harangued members to invest in the Nevada mine, or the camp in Brazil, or Shiloh, or the school etc. This is the fruit of TLWF and JRS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2018 11:39AM by Reepicheep.

Reep, you can pick away in imitation analysis, dissection, or deconstruction of my texts and my positions. But here's the thing, YOUR view, opinions, judgments are not dispositive of anything, other than what you subjectively believe was/is the case back then. Equally, you seek to conflate and restrict my experience of the apostolic ministry to feelings, as though "feelings" were somehow an invalid indicator of merit simply because there are other categories for distinguishing a personal or collective experience. But you were not, and still are not, the arbiter of what constitutes or evinces the truth of JRS'S ministry. Certainly not as to my collective experience. And you damn sure arent an suthority, religious or otherwise, on the authenticity of any outpouring of the Spirit of God. I dont recall hearing that you were appointed, or designated the judge of the divine merit of JRS's ministry. And I certainly dont accept your view(s) or judgments as reliable, in any way, let alone authoritative on the truth of JRS. Get over it, and yourself. Like the rest of us, neither the Walk or JRS, or The Living Word, stripped you of common sense. Like the rest of us, we were participants in a socio-spiritual-religious movement. Conflicts are inherent to all collective endeavors and states of affairs. Many of us were potentially fodder. It was up to each individual to test the apostolic spirit and word. In a word to CYA. The only thing that mattered was our relationship to Christ Jesus. Shiloh, Nevada mines, Brazil, South Africa...whatever. It was incidental. Some forces, socual, spiritual, psychological are just too damn large or big for individuals to resist, msnage or detect. Risk cannot ve eliminated and we are always deliberating and acting with imperfect information. I dont understand, after all these years, why you and continue mired in bitter rejection. Peter, John, Paul left it all and were ultimately crucified for their committment to resisting the world according to Rome.

seventies walker Wrote:
-------
> We were all deceived and living a lie.
> Fond memories of the good times do not change
> the facts.

True

Reepicheep Wrote:


> You can believe whatever you like about JRS, but
> that doesn't make it true. Many people who post on
> this topic here have seen their families torn
> apart and destroyed. A daughter posted about
> reading her mother's diary after she had passed
> away, and of the terrible things that she had gone
> through. People lost their life savings because
> JRS harangued members to invest in the Nevada
> mine, or the camp in Brazil, or Shiloh, or the
> school etc. This is the fruit of TLWF and JRS.

Yes, and people have a right to be a bit upset, and warn others not to be involved in the organization--sparing them unnecessary misery and heartache. I construe this as being a good citizen.

Acesanates, I believe you said that you left the Walk when it all became "too political" back in the late seventies. What does that mean? Please help us to understand why you left.

This forum is made available through the Cult Education Institute, and the topic is The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens. You can call people who post here "bitter" in order to label them and belittle their views. "Bitter" has been a trigger word in the fellowship, commonly used to shame anyone who began to have views which were divergent from JRS or the Hargraves. (Bitter equals no revelation, apostate, withdrawn.) Those are signal words for members to shun that person and no longer listen to them.

I believe that most people posting here do so to help light the way for friends and loved ones who are still within the TLWF, and to warn those who might be considering joining the group. What is your purpose for posting here, other than to "cause trouble, start arguments and/or intimidate people"? (Quoting from the forum rules that you signed in order to register here.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2018 10:37PM by Reepicheep.

This discussion fellowship began February 22, 2004.

As of this morning (1/6/2014 6:33AM PST) this thread is at reached 554 pages.

Some reflections on Rick Ross's list of characteristics of a potentially unsafe group or leader

The group/leader is always right.

This makes it hard for persons harmed by the leader to obtain a hearing. Result is that the fellowship gets only the leader's side of the story.

Quote

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Who leaves? People who feel harmed, exploited - and who can point to sources of evidence. But they are regarded by the leader as evil, members are forbidden
to talk to them, so again, only the leader's side of the story gets a hearing.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances

Here and there someone may experience only love, joy and healing from a leader or group. But what if very many others are experiencing pain, loneliness and harm? If one person has only good experiences, does this cancel out the collective experiences of those who have felt pain?

Quote

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: December 22, 2017 10:04PM

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
•Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
•No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
•No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
•Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
•There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
•Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
•There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
•Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
•The group/leader is always right.
•The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Sounds familiar, right? These signs were evident under JRS, G&M, and are still apparent today. Thank you, changedagain, and so many others for posting your thoughts and experiences about TLWF over the years. You have helped many, including me.

Friends, it may be mere coincidence but...

Reepicheep arrived and began contributing to this discussion on December 12, having been in The Walk from childhood.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Jonah began contributing this this discussion on January 4th.

Quote

This is the first time I am posting, but I have been following the forum off and on for quite awhile. I am so appreciative that it is available. I came into “the walk” as a teenager, and finally terminated my association for good after more than forty years. There were many red flags along the way that I learned to ignore and suppress. There were definitely times I wanted to leave, but the longer you are in, the more complicated it becomes to break away. It was helpful to me when I discovered this blog and more information on cults that control their members. Here I read things that I had thought about many times, but was afraid to admit. And reading and pondering helped give me hope that there were others who felt as I did.

I still haven't been able to attend a church again, even a few years after leaving. I read the Woodrow Nichols book from the links mentioned on this forum. I found it to be very helpful. I remember first-hand a great many events that were detailed in the book. Good thoughts to all those on the long road to freedom. And thanks again to all those who post here.

By his report, Jonah left The Walk recently.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote

I've been a lurker for many months now, and I finally got an account. I'm hoping I can add a bit to the conversation since I have only very recently left the church. In fact, this Sunday will be my first time going to a non-TLWF church on my own accord. I am a young man in my mid 20's who has attended Shiloh for the last 8 years and also attended the church recently opened in North Libery, IA.

Toward the end of the post, TheycalledmeJonah wrote:

"If any of you want to know about anyone or anything in the modern TLWF churches, feel free to ask."

So, here we are.

Two new participants, one with years of experience in The Walk, and one who has
left just recently.

Both report that reading this message board has helped them.

Just a day later, who else arrives?

Someone speaking words of shame and invalidation.

Could it be that this discussion is becoming just a little too emancipatory?

It is totally against the rules of use on CEI for anyone to use the private message
system for purposes of intimidation.

If you get any inappropriate PMs please copy them and send them
to Rick Ross, moderator of this message board.

He has no way to know if the PM is being abused unless we keep him
informed.

Here is how you can reach Rick Ross by PM

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2018 11:22PM by corboy.

acesandates:

What is your standing with The Walk now and what do you think about Robert Stevens?

What mistakes do you think Stevens made and how in your opinion could the group today address and rectify those mistakes?

What do you think is wrong with The Walk that leads to continued complaints about it and its leadership?

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You didn't say if your family is still part of the
> San Diego church. Hopefully, they will be
> supportive of you either way. That must have been
> hard for you, being in Shiloh without them while
> you were still in high school.
>
> Many happy returns for a great new year of finding
> out more about you and who you want to be in this
> world.



Thanks for your kind words, Reep. My parents are still in the church, but their relationship with it has definitely changed quite a bit. I see them as being in the same place I am with the church - Love the people with all our hearts, but need something different for ourselves.

Our relationship has changed for the better. When I moved here, they really let me go after what I thought was God's leading. They want that for all their kids. My relationship with my parents has also had its tough moments on account of me being out here. When a close family friend died, my parents were grieving, and Craig and Phyllis told me my parents were way too emotional and to not be dragged down by them (Its clear from this and other examples that Craig and Phyllis were trying to peel me away from my parents). Other times, Craig and Phyllis would tell me my parents were crazy, and I went along with it because I was brainwashed. I have since scrubbed my mind from all the lies they would feed me, and now have an even better relationship with my parents.

Hope your new year is great so far!

Thanks Corboy for the kind words and the time you put into your post. Everything you said in your post is accurate.

There is no partiality in the dedication of a TLWF member. You are either throwing away your life to it, or you are an outsider.