Hi Invisible,

When I joined I didn't do an exhaustive analysis of world religions and decided the LW presented the best theology available. I had no biblical discernment skills and did not realize then that many of JRS's teachings go against the Bible. But I probably hoped the LW would fulfill very real perceived needs. After I left I tried to forget about the whole time I was there. But I think inside I felt shame, believing there might have been something wrong with me because I had a hard time moving on with my life.

I am providing a link to a very insightful article written by therapists on post cult psychological problems. One comment from the article really stood out, "Some continue to feel shame, believing the cult doctrine was perfect and somehow they are flawed because they could not apply it successfully." No one who has rejected the teachings of JRS about Christmas should feel any shame. They should celebrate their freedom from mind control and the undue influence of those who pretend to be prophets and oracles of God!




[www.blgoldberg.com]

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Invisible,
>
> When I joined I didn't do an exhaustive analysis
> of world religions and decided the LW presented
> the best theology available. I had no biblical
> discernment skills and did not realize then that
> many of JRS's teachings go against the Bible. But
> I probably hoped the LW would fulfill very real
> perceived needs. After I left I tried to forget
> about the whole time I was there. But I think
> inside I felt shame, believing there might have
> been something wrong with me because I had a hard
> time moving on with my life.
>
> I am providing a link to a very insightful article
> written by therapists on post cult psychological
> problems. One comment from the article really
> stood out, "Some continue to feel shame, believing
> the cult doctrine was perfect and somehow they are
> flawed because they could not apply it
> successfully." No one who has rejected the
> teachings of JRS about Christmas should feel any
> shame. They should celebrate their freedom from
> mind control and the undue influence of those who
> pretend to be prophets and oracles of God!
>
>
>
>
> [www.blgoldberg.com]

I liked this article, Lily Rose. I can relate to the part you mentioned about feeling like a failure after leaving. It's only recently that I began to realize how messed up TLWF is and stopped condemning myself. Also, I saw many parallels when the author of the article mentioned cults that feel they can raise the children better than the parents can. I saw many examples of this.

Back to the not feeling guilty part, Gary once said something to the effect of, "When someone leaves the fellowship, why do they have to criticize and speak negatively? Why can't the just say, 'I don't want to do this anymore' and leave?"

That has been in the back of my mind for the ten years since I left. I didn't want to hurt those still in the fellowship, so I kept quiet. That is so destructive. The first time I mentioned anything negative to a therapist, I felt like a traitor.

Rick Ross has some short videos on youtu.be. One I watched is titled "Is Joining A Cult A Personal Choice?" I found it very helpful.
[youtu.be]

I tried the link, and it didn't work. But if you just google Cult Education Institute, videos should come up on the page. Click on one and you should be able to find the one I mentioned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2017 10:04AM by Reepicheep.

Reepicheep Wrote:

> Back to the not feeling guilty part, Gary once
> said something to the effect of, "When someone
> leaves the fellowship, why do they have to
> criticize and speak negatively? Why can't the just
> say, 'I don't want to do this anymore' and leave?"

Of course, this question can be turned around and phrased this way--'When someone claims to represent God, why do they have to criticize and speak negatively? Why can't they just say, 'I trust with a little help you'll find your own walk with God and I'm not going to lord it over you' and let people be?'

Anyway, I'm thankful that people have had the courage to share their experiences in TLWF with others in this forum. It helps those that have suffered from the abusive practices of that cult realize they are not alone and also (hopefully) find a path to ultimate freedom. It also serves as a warning to anyone considering joining the group.

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
•Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
•No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
•No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
•Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
•There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
•Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
•There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
•Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
•The group/leader is always right.
•The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Sounds familiar, right? These signs were evident under JRS, G&M, and are still apparent today. Thank you, changedagain, and so many others for posting your thoughts and experiences about TLWF over the years. You have helped many, including me.

Reepicheep – Thanks for posting the “Ten signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader”. It appears to me that TLWF is 10 for 10. To someone within the group, it is assumed that for some reason you hate them for pointing out these things. I would suggest it is just the opposite. It is because you recognize the hazards and care about your friends still held in bondage that you speak up – in spite of knowing fully well that you will be criticized for doing so. I think it is good for people to read books on cults to see what experts have to say that have no axe to grind with your particular cult. If for some reason you question the validity of Rick Ross, there are plenty of other experts out there to choose from. You should also be aware that there is an effort to discredit anyone that attempts to speak up about cults by the cults themselves. However, if you read enough books, the common threads will become apparent and you will be able to get to the truth. There are plenty of other cult checklists out there that TLWF bats a thousand on.

My first thought, when you posted Gary's quote about “When they leave the fellowship, why do they have to criticize and speak negatively?” was the same as changedagain’s thought. Why is it necessary for TLWF to slander those who leave? I’m not personally aware of anyone that has left that did not have a negative stigma attached to their leaving. Even before leaving, any attempt to speak up about things that were destructive got you removed from any type of leadership. Many situations were later changed by "Christ in the flesh" (who had originally directed them) after they made a big mess. It was then attributed to “false shepherds who didn't have their spirit” - and who were no longer around to defend themselves. The smear tactics on those who have left are brutal and any further contact is discouraged. It started with John prophesying the death of his wife and daughter and continues with those who have taken his place. If you are one that is still allowed on church property – I’m not one of them – and you show up for a service, you are smothered in insincere love. The week before, if they saw you at the store, they turned and went the other direction. I don’t think you know who you true friends are until you are both free. I would suggest the same is true about God. Do we still pursue Him when no authority figure is making us?

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Rick Ross has some short videos on youtu.be. One I
> watched is titled "Is Joining A Cult A Personal
> Choice?" I found it very helpful.
> [youtu.be]
>
> I tried the link, and it didn't work. But if you
> just google Cult Education Institute, videos
> should come up on the page. Click on one and you
> should be able to find the one I mentioned.

Try this link.
[www.youtube.com]

You quoted from the Hulu production about a cult, "Once you've seen the freak show, you can't unsee it." So true. It's interesting the recent appearance of movies and mini series about cults. I think stories from the LW would be fodder for a brilliant mini series about false prophets, apocalyptic beliefs, and Nazi hierarchies. Or a mini series kind of like the Wedding Crashers but called the Cult Crashers who infiltrate Bible based cults across the country and let loose a big Jezebel spirit and shut them down. Does anyone know if the FBI ever looked into the LW? There were so many similarities to the David Koresch group which the FBI did investigate.

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I am providing a link to a very insightful article
> written by therapists on post cult psychological
> problems. One comment from the article really
> stood out, "Some continue to feel shame, believing
> the cult doctrine was perfect and somehow they are
> flawed because they could not apply it
> successfully." >
>
>
> [www.blgoldberg.com]


Great link because. IMO some of the post cult difficulties I see in some ex-pats. And myself. Are directly related to our cult experiences. But until we recognize it. Especially the feelings of shame. It's hard to break free. I would change the quote. "Some continue to not feel anymore shame, knowing the cult doctrine was imperfect, false, and flawed."

"Cult Crashers." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lily you made my day!

Lily posted the link to the You Tube Video last year about the Bethlehem Star. I had never seen it before. I watched it at least 5 times. Can't even put into words why I watched it so many times. Guess I liked it. Still sorting that out.








[www.youtube.com]

Storytelling deserves our close attention.

A huge part of a guru's marketing and the social scene around that guru
is created and maintained by story sharing - miracles, healings.

Think about it.

Our first contact with an exploitative person or group is via the stories told or hinted at by a group and its disciple/recruiters.

So one can get valuable information about any group, however secretive, is through the ways its loyalists tell stories, what kinds of stories they value -- and the kinds of stories they reject.

Every group, including the ones discussed here on CEI message board, has its stories and storytelling patterns.

Each group has stories it cherishes and it is equally defined by the types of story material it ignores.

As a prospective recruit, you hear such stories. Group members MUST repeat these stories for their own benefit; it maintains their own commitment to the group, despite the sacrifices and, yes the doubts they can't help but feel from time to time.

If you happen to hear such stories and show any appearance of interest, no matter how subtle, you signal you are safe and just might be a prospective convert, further down the line.



If you look horror stricken, show disgust, or let out a snort of laughter, you
reveal that you are most certainly NOT a potential recruit.

If you are at the very least willing to keep listening and look courteous
when hearing a group's cherished story material, you indicate that you are
at the very least, probably not hostile, and may even be a potential recruit.

We define ourselves, form and maintain relationships according to the stories
we listen to, stories we tune out or actively reject.

Through storytelling we join groups, stay in groups, and leave or are rejected by groups.

These have to do with the kinds of stories you hear told
about a church leader or guru.

Stories of miracles and healings

(Descriptions of healings are often the very first information you get from a recruiter. The recruiter is often a trusted friend, work buddy, relative.

Without your awareness your friend or relative may be involved in
a high demand group, perhaps this person is not aware of it, either.

Your significant other will probably mention this person or the group
as part of his or her life. It is common to mention sessions with
a trusted therapist, yoga classes, etc.

You're used to your friend being involved with this stuff.

You become familiar with the names and places tied to your pal's own
journey.

Here is where you get reeled in.

Things happen. Your life gets difficult, even traumatic. You take a lot
of hits from many directions. You're floundering.

(Substitute 'psychotherapist', 'yoga teacher', 'energy healer')

When you're in crisis is when your defenses are down.

This relationship means more to you than ever.

This is when your pal mentions some tales of healing, some rather special
things done by this pastor or other person whose name you already know.

You love and trust your friend. Because you're in crisis, you need that friend more than ever. So, you're likely to trust what the person is telling you.

You make an appointment with the pastor for a counseling session. Or you accept your friend's invitation to come worship at the church.

Once you are there, you're going to be welcomed. If you continue to attend, you
will meet other members of that church and hear their tales of healing.

You will now hear more stories.

How the leader got his or her calling

How the church was founded

See what's happening? You've joined a story sharing network.

How a group tells stories and what stories are told are part of the sect's "courtship process" -- and part of how the sect creates and maintains its
identity.

Storytelling is a big part of cultic recruitment

One doesn't learn much about a group's secrecy around finances until after one has been a member, by which time you're in trouble.

We still have a chance
to flee if we pick up on these early warning signals and take them seriously.

If you heed your feelings of disgust, fear, and you leave right away, instead of remaining and your shock fading away -- you are not recruited.

This is why recruitment through friendships and love remains so important
for cults.

We endure awkward social situations on behalf of friends or a beloved relative that you'd not put up with, otherwise. Remain too long in that awkward social situation - you risk getting used to it.

Hear enough second hand miracle stories about a leader, and you risk forgetting warnings to test the spirits and that false saviors abound.


Stories. Tales. We shape each other's identities by the stories we listen to and -- we set our boundaries by the stories we refuse to listen to.

If you keep listening to certain types of stories, you adjust yourself
to the group that tells and retells and creates these kinds of stories.

The point here is you keep listening to these stories.

Do this and your sense of possibility changes. Things that seem shocking or revolting no longer do so. You've gotten accustomed to this.

*Disciples tell devotional stories about the leader. Perhaps the leader does not mention these incidents. But--disciples who are in favor with the leader keep the miracle chatter going.

If you do not join in on this sort of talk, you remain an outsider.

You are like someone who is in a foreign country but refuses to change your dollars
into the local currency. You never quite fit in. .

* The leader works miracles. Perhaps the word 'miracle' is never used, but might as well be. People talk about amazing synchronicities and healings in their lives and are sure the leader or the groups rituals caused it all. The leader appears in a favored disciple'd dreams.

If you join in the miracle talk, you are included in the group. Through social influence you become convinced the leader is working miracles in your life. The leader appears in your dreams.

Stephen Batchelor describes how he pulled this on himself.

[forum.culteducation.com]

As you go deeper into the group, you hear additional stories, stories not told
to newcomers.

* The leader's illnesses are caused by demonic or astral assaults because of
negative thinking from former disciples or from doubts held by current disciples

*Those who criticize or leave the group suffer horrible fates

* Special prayer groups are set up to meditate or pray on the leader's behalf and being in these special groups is a badge of status, even if the leader
seemingly knows nothing of this. (In some cases the leader does know nothing
about the subgroup, and the subgroup may someday secede and form a new spin off cult in competition with the leader's cult)

•No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

•There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil

These form a pair.

And, "no tolerance for questions or critical inquiry" -- this is not always enforced in an obviously harsh manner.

An effective way to enforce this is through ridicule and shaming, often non verbal.

* Laughter that seems affectionate but is actually shaming

* The group goes silent when an episode of critical thinking ruins the devotional mood.

If you have come to depend on the group for emotional support, especially if you already have friends in the group, sudden exclusion from the group's shared 'vibe' through this kind of shaming, silence, eye rolling can slash like a whip. You've already become reliant on the group's affection, perhaps you hope
to be brought further into the group.

Making a blunder and being suddenly cut off from the group's 'tribe vibe' can feel agonizing.

A leader may come across as benevolent and loving. However, that leader may
have senior disciples who inflict punitive discipline. These higher ranking
disciples act as enforcers, and also as gatekeepers. This preserves the leader's benevolent loving reputation.

The word 'reputation' is key. After all, the leader permits these enforcers
to do his or her bidding.

When you are reeling from a shame attack, you have difficulty remembering all this.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2017 07:03AM by corboy.

These are excellent points, Corboy. I recall a line constantly said “Rebellion is witchcraft”. I also recall Marilyn saying that any member criticizing the LW is like a rattlesnake sticking it’s head up. The only thing to do is quickly chop it’s head off.