I just wanted to mention one more thing. I usually didn't seek confirmation on too many things. :)

It was always better to 'sub-nouce' (submitting an announcement) something you already did rather than get shut down on submitting it in the first place.

(Always worked for me.)

Thanks for the warm welcomes! So many of the things you all are saying just make me laugh out loud. Not because they are untrue but because even as a child these things made me laugh. I got thrown out of class many times for being unabe to control my laughter when the hypocrisy got to deep. I recall one event at Shiloh where they released balloons in the sanctuary and one guy, Jeff C, said, "don't touch them it's a trick"
That had me laughing for the rest of the service. In retrospect it was the fact that Jeff knew it was ALL BS and had the nerve to be sarcastic about it that made if funny. Like most cults and cult of personality leaders, John really seemed to care at first. When he became a recluse in his secluded and secured apartment at Shiloh was really the first ah-ha moment for me. Why would someone who loved so much and was loved so much seek refuge from his flock??

Tmason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the warm welcomes! So many of the
> things you all are saying just make me laugh out
> loud. Not because they are untrue but because even
> as a child these things made me laugh. I got
> thrown out of class many times for being unabe to
> control my laughter when the hypocrisy got to
> deep. I recall one event at Shiloh where they
> released balloons in the sanctuary and one guy,
> Jeff C, said, "don't touch them it's a trick"
> That had me laughing for the rest of the service.
> In retrospect it was the fact that Jeff knew it
> was ALL BS and had the nerve to be sarcastic about
> it that made if funny. Like most cults and cult of
> personality leaders, John really seemed to care at
> first. When he became a recluse in his secluded
> and secured apartment at Shiloh was really the
> first ah-ha moment for me. Why would someone who
> loved so much and was loved so much seek refuge
> from his flock??


I'm still asking God the same question. If we love you so much why do you seek refuge? LOL!

I don't really know the answer to that question. I always wondered why do I have to relate to some of these people if you don't have to? I know people put him on a pedestal, so maybe that was the reason, but heck if I know.

SouthGate Wrote:

> I love reading your posts. Pretty much make me
> laugh every time. Just curious, who was the pastor
> when you left if you don't mind telling me.

Thanks.
McMullen--he was sincere in serving G & M, so even though we butted heads, I can't fault him. He was doing (I think) what was expected of him. Very dedicated.
In retrospect, it's obvious that everyone (with the exception of Rick, perhaps) was disposable to G & M, in furthering their agenda. Look at how many 'apostles' were forced out/shunned/mistreated once they were no longer in alignment with 'Mom and Dad.'
BTW, the memory of a particular Valley service in the 90's is still vivid to me. Gary announced the death of Bob McClane, a good friend of mine, and then proceeded to label Bob as a spiritual failure, and chastised those who were close to him for not looking out after his health. Such an expression of the father's heart! (sarcasm).

SouthGate Wrote:
> Plus, I always thought that the ultimate higher confirmation was God. I know
> things changes before and especially after John died.

It's now Marilyn.

The whole concept of "getting a word" was rooted in the latter rain / charismatic spiritual gift of wisdom. It was meant to be a blessing from God.

In my local church we were taught a little different implementation of the gift of wisdom than many from Cali. Words were spoken over folks in our local church only infrequently. They were usually in response to submitting life decisions for confirmation. I remember few if any occasions were the confirmations were anything other than generalized statements beyond yes, or "proceed with caution". Occasionally confirmation requests for marriage were met with "wait" as a response. There was never a word of marriage for someone who had not requested confirmation, certainly never one for a couple who had no intention.

I remember distinctly my pastor telling us that if the word given was not a revelation to the intended then it wasn't a word at all. ie if it's not confirmed in your heart, just set it aside and don't sweat it, and just walk away. Too bad such simple common sense was not as common in other churches. What are they doing the TWF today? Surely they're not perpetuating this absolute non-sense?

2016--sounds as if your local church was far less cultish than those in So. Cal. Even though it happened years ago, I'd be very thankful for your pastor's view on "getting a word" as you were probably spared a lot of grief. I think the woo-woo communicating with the dead (M and John) feeds the nonsense you mentioned. Ya think there might be a scientist or astronaut in the congregation that would demand some kind of objective verification of this??

Being outside of So. Cal. we weren't totally immune.

In 1979-80, JRS had our senior ministry staff deliver the word that many of "the best" of our local folks should move to Shiloh. Local senior ministry hand picked individuals that would relocate. Those who were young, unmarried or only recently married were candidates.

That was the power of the cult: quit your job, drop out of school, move to Iowa to pick corn.

Who needed a confirmation or a revelation (or a rocket scientist or an astronaut per Lily Rose :> ). It was an honor of the highest degree to be asked. Who could doubt it? How could you refuse? It was just an extension of the wild and and crazy adventure called the TLWF. I was devastated when I wasn't asked to go. God! I so wanted to be picked to go to Shiloh.

For all who went it proved to be the worst choice of their lives. Those who were able to get out only lost 2 - 5 years in what should have been the most productive years of their lives.

Others (some were my very best friends) are in the walk still... they've given up their whole of their lives.

They were all wonderful, amazing talented young people with so much potential.

Most are now broke. Many are divorced and estranged from their families. All of them are now old and their lives are almost over.

That "word of wisdom" so long ago cost them everything...

As for the woo-woo communicating; Hey John! hey Marilyn! and oh yeah, HEY GOD! Thanks for NOT picking me!

PS: To anyone reading this who's still in TLWF.

Everyone who posts here, to varying degrees, really do understand where you're coming from.

But consider this: how much have you already given up - what is Gary & Co. going to require of you in the future? Will you also be old, broke and alone? Don't look for a confirmation or a revelation. Let your rational brain have a go at it for a while. Consider what others have suggested; take a break make some space between you and TLWF for a time.

PSS: I pray God let's you off the hook and gives you some of the mercy he spared me...

Changed,
Was Bob M the father of one Sandy M?

2016,
I recall my father getting "confirmation" for us to move to the middle of the desert and attempt to mine gold from the Nevada sand. He sought confirmation for every move we ever made; like a good soldier would.
When the effort in the MEADOW VALLEY WASH failed we were literally left stranded and broke. We lived in a motel in Tucson and scrapped by until we moved east. We had made a break from TLW only to rejoin in DC where Dan Statton was the pastor.
My father endured a long illness prior to his death and do you think TLW did anything (a viist from the leader) for his 40 years of dedicated service?
One would think that if God gave direction to you via JRS and "confirmation"that he would not forsake you in your time of need. Indeed I don't believe God would forsake his children but TLW surely would.
Even as a child it occurred to me that this "confirmation" must not be the will of God or we would not have been left hanging.
To Lillys point, it didn't take an astronaut to spot the flaws in the system.
If I could get paid now (plus interest) for the hours I spent detasling corn, stuffing chickens, bailing hay, sorting and stacking paint brush bristles, cooking and cleaning, laying carpet......oh the commune life.
That was just the work of one child. I can't imagine what some of you put into the effort. Unbelievable.