L.B. brings up some important points. First, that the teachings of Jesus are not obsolete. When would LOVING GOD (the LOVING ONE), and LOVING your Brother ever go out of style? Wildly convoluted religion building is an entirely different matter.

Speaking of convoluted, I am privy to some expats who still believe the theology of TLW continues to hold merit, but was simply sidetracked and hijacked by corrupting influences. This is a slippery slope when one considers the fact that any future incarnations would be subject to the very same abuses. It's impossible for religion-building to avoid the pitfalls of kingdom-building.

Reflecting on the hubris we displayed in priding ourselves as ‘prophets of revelation’, while at the same time excusing abuses we found scripturally justified, points out that when doctrine preempts LOVE, vision is restricted, not enhanced.

To confirm L.B.’s final point:

PART

Each
has a part
to play

in the
HEALING
of the world



MISSION

Our
MISSION

is to LIGHT up
areas of darkness

within
one another

kBOY – I’ve also heard of similar (perhaps the same) groups of people who think TLW started out fine with John and then was later corrupted. I also suspected the same thing at one point, but after looking closer at the roots, the seeds for the problems that later developed were always there. Sometimes we can get so caught up in the charisma of the moment that we fail to do what Jesus said, which was to look at the fruit. Unfortunately, fruit takes a while to develop, but it still is what Jesus said to examine if we want to know the real status of the tree.

I was thinking the other day how the Kingdom really is Christ in you – not the perfect doctrine or external system, but actually Him. It’s not by our works, but His - we are His workmanship. It really is a new creation and you have to be born again to even see the Kingdom. When it is really Christ in you, you start loving people you never cared about before – and you of all people will know when it starts to happen. The Apostle John said it so subtly that if a man says he loves God and hates his brother, he is a liar. I would suspect prophesying the death of someone who does not agree with you may fall under the category of hate.

The perversion is the “christ” in you that wants to rule over other people – something God doesn’t even do. He gives them freedom of choice and draws them by His loving kindness. Ever notice how these prophetic (pathetic) groups want to establish some type of “divine order” where they are at the top instead of serving others? I do get a little delight in watching them try to get the other guy to submit to them while pretending God gave them a position. The manipulation can be quite clever at times, but it never comes out looking like a servant. We really are a living word – it just needed a different source to be true. There is only so much an “inspired” logo or designated relationship can do - a new nature is not one of them.

LB:

As you rightly point out, we will be known by our fruits. Being ‘reborn’ (re-identifying ourself with LOVE) leads to new vision, and the upside of LOVING those who we might have previously ruled out.

The actual ‘works of GOD’ have everything to do with LOVING our Brother and little or nothing to do with serving a religious hierarchy. CHRIST/LOVE within us is the only doctrine worth adhering to, whose natural effect is the extension of the KINGDOM through LOVE.

jan w. lane. Thank you. Kathy and her sister Beth McDermott were part of the body in Salt Lake City.

While in Hawaii, some of us would ride the bus across Oahu to the North Shore where Dan & Aleta had rented a house. They would have church services there. You could see the waves out their back oceanfront window. It was a lot of fun and pretty exotic too.

TheJewel thanks for that link, there are several of those "debunking" videos that are very interesting, I have watched a few of them.

I think God would probably really pour His Spirit out in a great way if these charismatics would stop faking it so much. I guess pastors think that the end justifies the means, they figure that God needs a little help here and there. It's a pretty sad thing. I am almost ready to scrap the whole mission and leave the Pentecostal/Charismatic realm.

L.B. said, "I’ve also heard of similar (perhaps the same) groups of people who think TLW started out fine with John and then was later corrupted.

I used to be in that group, but after a time I realized it never really passed the most basic of tests. E.g. for a group to be a religious organization, it must of necessity, focus the aspirations of the adherents on a higher power, whether internal or external, for the purpose of cultivating spirituality among the members. The cult, (TLW is a great example) focuses the energies of its congregants on a single personality (JRS, Marilyn, Gary et al) for the purpose of elevating that person to deity status, with the hope of attaining some exclusive level of spiritual insight. Although to be fair, I never witnessed JRS insisting on that status. His error was that he didn't vociferously reject the people's insistence that he become God in the flesh.

jan w. lane, I'm in the same category as paleface. I have loved ones who are the progeny of second generationers in the Walk, TLW, CHK, whatever moniker. They may come to their senses one day, and I want there to be a lifeline that can soften the transition, should they decide to make a change. It can be a really rough transition at first. Most common is the embedded belief that one is in danger of losing one's salvation. That can be a scary proposition until one is able to see that notion for the poppycock it is. If they knew who I was on this forum, they might be less inclined to seek out my company and comfort.

pbxguy Wrote:

> jan w. lane, I'm in the same category as paleface.
> I have loved ones who are the progeny of second
> generationers in the Walk, TLW, CHK, whatever
> moniker. They may come to their senses one day,
> and I want there to be a lifeline that can soften
> the transition, should they decide to make a
> change. It can be a really rough transition at
> first.

Yes.

There have been some specials on TV about Charles Manson and his "family" cult. I couldn't help but think, gosh those young women that were his followers sure reminded me of the Blix girls from the 70's. Same vibe. Same blind loyality.

Apostle Dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheJewel thanks for that link, there are several
> of those "debunking" videos that are very
> interesting, I have watched a few of them.
>
> I think God would probably really pour His Spirit
> out in a great way if these charismatics would
> stop faking it so much. I guess pastors think
> that the end justifies the means, they figure that
> God needs a little help here and there. It's a
> pretty sad thing. I am almost ready to scrap the
> whole mission and leave the
> Pentecostal/Charismatic realm.

I agree, if I ever decide to enter something "Christian" again it will not be anything Charismatic, Evangelical, Pentecostal or any of the rest of the "whoredom" that want to be a part of this "Shotgun Wedding" between religion and politics that we seem to be seeing so much of these days. It makes me want to puke.

FWIW: I find things like the Carter Center and the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation much more meaningful to me these days -- I think that these sorts of groups do great work. I support Carter Center and another private group that helps orphanages in Mexico. While I respect Bill Gates, I don't think he really needs my money :-).