They might ask you if you eat the food off your dinner plate separatly.

Apostle Dog Wrote In Part:
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> >
> On a side note. I have heard over and over that
> they were trying to "preserve the word." Preserve
> the word for what? For who?

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In M's bio it says they want to preserve and distribute.....to create the fulfillment of what God was restoring to His church.

There's more at www.garyandmarilynhargrave.com/2013/11/livingword-digital-catalog/

Cataloging with the ability to search by main topics or subtopics would have been a beast because each message would require competent reading, analysis, and coding. Then to make it digital I'm sure has been a huge project and it appears this was completed in 2013.

Now for the restricted messages you don't need a password. But I think you have to go to changedagain's home and he will monitor and watch you while you listen so you don't take notes or try to duplicate the message.

Date: August 25, 2015 02:20AM

They might ask you if you eat the food off your dinner plate separatly.

Every once in a while I put a little of everything on my plate on my fork at one time and eat the whole glob at once, just out of a spirit of rebellion. I kid you not, I do this thirty years after the fact.

By the way, how did JRS eat soup?

I knew Paul and Helen Young personally and a lot more happened than Helen being labelled a "Nephilm" (although I am sure that was possible given that I have been called the same). Being called a Nephilim, by the way, is something of an honorary title given only to very special people.

John Stevens once said that most things are grey and streaky [not black and white], and in the Young's case it was definitely true. In their case, I observed a case where the pastor was abused and maligned by sheep and certain "elders." The Young's definitely made some mistakes. But it just goes to show that it isn't always leaders abusing sheep -- it can go the other way.

Paul once told me toward the end that he did not understand Brother Stevens any longer, but did not elaborate. It also seems as I recall, that was a time when many former pastors and elders of that age group were on the outs. At the time, Coniah Chapel (I think) was something of an aberration, but my opinion is that when those older leaders started being pushed out it was likely he beginning of the end. The rest of us, like myself, were just too young and inexperienced to be principle pastor of anything other than a lemonade stand.

My own opinion is that John was a man of God (and I suppose that is a point that one could argue depending on perspective and experience), warts and all, but I think that his failing was that he did not listen very well -- and that's a trait similar to many who followed him. I have heard it said that when one idolizes a leader, one tends to emulate the worst of their traits. In this case it seems that they definitely do ...

Amos:

You said, "When one idolizes a leader, one tends to emulate the worst of their traits. In this case it seems that they definitely do ..."

Leaders like Stevens set up a system to clone themselves. It's what cult leaders do and its universal to the cult experience.

Please don't engage in victim bashing here.

Amos,

Unless you are a skinny blonde girl who talks kind of ditzy, why wouldn't JRS or his clones listen to you?

I'm not aware of any incident where elders or the congregation lied about a pastor but that's not to say it couldn't happen. However, in general,it seems that the majority of complaints reported about spiritual abuse involve the leader.

Yes, it seems that some of the pastors of a certain age were replaced during that time 79-80 but so was a younger one, Craig Gruenberg.

In the mid to late 70's John rewarded young militant loyalists, who (in many cases) disdained exsiting pastors who they considered 'old order.' I don't know the specific situation involving Paul and Helen Young, perhaps Amos could provide more detail, but if the Youngs were mistreated by the elders/congregation, that probably had a lot to do with it. I recall during the peak of the violent intercession, how many of the Timothys (intolerant servants of John) made a point to distinguish John from all other ministries in the fellowship. We loose The Apostle!! (The door-opener, The Christ etc. etc.) Hey, to some extent, I was one of them.

Gary was at the forefront of this 'revolution,' BTW.
Sympathy was verboten.

What's everyone doing today to feed into the Kingdom?
(felt I should break the silence with a very pertinent question)