"little people"--I think they were the ones that tithed consistently, never complained, and did all the work. Losers! (sarcasm)

Although for years I had the title of 'shepherd,' in reality I functioned mostly as a little person. Because I occasionally resisted the workload placed on me, and all the weird TLWF trips emanating from the authority structure, I was often put on disciplinary programs in an attempt to make me even more little...which were effective short-term. Fortunately, even though I was a zero, I stubbornly refused to allow my rim to be rubbed out (this is not a sexual reference, so don't take it that way).
Ahhh....how I miss the 'upward flow'!! (sarcasm...straight from Satan...wait, that's sarcasm again...sorry)

Does anyone remember the music tape titled, “Range Rider” that was produced by the LW? Part of the lyrics go like this, “Range Rider, Range Rider can you hope to find, that the desert and mountains will bring peace of mind?”

I was always a “little person” so I have found myself singing that song while wandering the Great Salt Lake Desert dirt roads. I do believe there is more peace in the desert than in church.

changedagain Wrote:
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> "little people"--I think they were the ones that
> tithed consistently, never complained, and did all
> the work. Losers! (sarcasm)


_________________________________

Also little people were in a lower power position and didn't have a voice.


Much has been posted by Larry Bobo about Jesus speaking out harshly in the NT about spiritual abuse and ravenous wolves but spiritual abuse also occurred in the OT although I don't recall it was a Walk teaching.

"I think that God's big gripe with the leaders of Israel, if you look at Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, was that they were not using the authority they had been given for the benefit of the weak, for those who didn't have a voice. They were using their authority for their own purposes and for the sake of human kingdoms. The results in people's lives then was the same as now: spiritual exhaustion rooted in misconceptions about who God is, about what God wants from us and about God's stance toward us." Jeff Van Vonderen

It occurred to me that JRS got most of his sons out of Coniah by sending them out to pastor churches but the Coniah little people at the bottom of the Walk's hierarchy weren't given a safe passage out of the madness during the abusive pastoring that occurred. To me that was an example of the Walk's destructiveness toward the little people who didn't have a voice.

If you are interested in Old Testament examples of spiritual abuse, they aren't too hard to find.

King David abused his authority when he sent Uriah to his death over Bathsheba, and David is often considered a type for the coming King of Israel who was Jesus.

The unfortunate consequence of putting any man in charge of anything is that things are going to get messed up.

Whatever sense of justice God has, it is sometimes tough to take. One would hope that with a wave of the hand He would step in an protect those sheep from the missteps of spiritual leaders. He never seems to and in the end one is left with the feeling that he or she got screwed in the deal.

The judgement of God is always about redemption, not punishment, and even David for all that was written about him paid dearly for his transgression, not only for Bathsheba but over the matter of the Ark returning from the Philistines and the census. But however dearly he paid for his transgression that is little consolation to the 70,000 who died over the matter of the census.

This I am not writing to justify anything that happened in the Living Word Fellowship but I would have to argue that whether there or elsewhere in order to spiritually survive one has to adjust their attitude about God's seemly horrible parenting skills. If God were a human father he would almost certainly be brought up on charges for endangering spiritual children.

I have not set foot in a church associated with the Living Word Fellowship since 2009 -- but I spent over 30 years in affiliation with those people. It has taken years not only forgiving them for the crazy stuff but forgiving God for doing nothing about it.

I am convinced of this: every story of spiritual judgement is a personal one. Name any prophet, from Moses to Jesus and it is a personal story of a person confronting evil and sometimes falling down in the process. No doubt every person who posts on this forum about what happened to them in the Fellowship ought to think of themselves in the same way. You may not appreciate what happened, you may not understand what happened, but recognize the role you played and can still play in what is to come.

Amos. Your above post is great. It “Makes my day!”

Amos, what an interesting point you brought up. I haven't had the thought myself that God deliberately did nothing to protect his spiritual children from the craziness of the walk, nor has anyone else posted it to my knowledge. You must have given this a lot of thought since 2009. Do you have an explanation or theory? Is it because God didn't care? Because as you say, it doesn't make him look very good. I have also never thought about blaming and/or forgiving God for his slights, but it must make sense after 30 years in the walk. If you would like to expand your thoughts on that a little more I would like to hear about it. You have a unique point of view.

Amos Wrote:
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> It has taken years not only forgiving them
> for the crazy stuff but forgiving God for doing
> nothing about it.
>
> ____________________________________

Amos I liked your post too, but I'm not buying into "forgiving God for doing nothing about it." I don't think that any of the Scriptures about forgiveness involve forgiving God.

For example, some in the LW made a choice to control, abuse and thereby damage some of the congregation rather than choose to build them up. Due to the existence of free will an intervention by God to stop the abuse would have meant that nothing is dependent on man's choices.

The way I see it, some in the LW refused to do anything about the abuse and we need to forgive them. But at the same time I think it is important to point out the abuse as it may help others who may be asking God to get them out of a situation where they feel stuck and unable to get out. You have to get yourself out. God isn't going to magically carry you out.

I recall reading that CS Lewis (who wrote a book trying to explain intellectually the problem of pain) confessed that when he was in deep emotional suffering he blasphemed and cursed through it all. We blame God but I'm not convinced God lets us down.

Very interesting discussion here. For me, it's more about forgiving myself for being such an idiot to join and be a part of the Living Word. What was I thinking?

Some ramblings:

No doubt there are many theological angles concerning Amos’ post. I would like to ask a Mormon whether it was Father God or Jesus who is responsible for murdering the 70,000. I would like to ask a dispensationalist/covenant theologian if the incident is mitigated because it happened before the “age of grace.” I would like to ask those who claim that these stories are written as “life lessons” rather than true historical fact. Somebody has an answer that is palatable. Those who make their living off of religion always find a way. Otherwise, why not dump Christianity because of inconsistencies and look for something more intelligent, functional and less destructive?

My only anchor is that I believe there is a reason for existence. I’m not quite ready to accept the concept that life is an accident that happened once upon a time in a galaxy with all the right conditions. The Biblical concept of a “spirit realm” is intriguing, who can disprove it?

I remember watching an old western movie where the thieves had a sign in their hideout that read, “God helps those who help themselves.” Good advice for those victimized by TLWF.

Amos the poster wrote: “I am convinced of this: every story of spiritual judgement is a personal one. Name any prophet, from Moses to Jesus and it is a personal story of a person confronting evil and sometimes falling down in the process. No doubt every person who posts on this forum about what happened to them in the Fellowship ought to think of themselves in the same way. You may not appreciate what happened, you may not understand what happened, but recognize the role you played and can still play in what is to come.”

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That is so insightful. Ten thousand years from now the people of that day might very well read about a handful of posters who turned the world tide by actively defying the evil cults.

Enough rambling.