Lily Rose,

I don't want to get into too much detail on this site, but I would be happy to tell my story privately if anyone wants to message me. I wasn't involved with TLW when you all were, but am now and have witnessed things that cause me to question. My screen name is really who I am- I believe the bible is all that is needed, and if anyone adds to or takes away from that, they are wrong. :-)

paleface Wrote:
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> Here's a poll: if you could name just one single
> thing that stands out as a cultish aspect of the
> Living Word what would it be? What single
> practice or doctrine makes your "red light" go on
> the strongest?
>
> For me, it is the implied deification of Marilyn,
> Gary and JRS.

shortlist of titles/accolades:
John: The Apostle to the Kingdom, The Door Opener, Christ in the Earth
Marilyn: The Lamp of Israel
Gary: The Apostolic Fathering Ministry (along with Marilyn), Professional Ministry of the Year (according to Cambridge Who's Who who)

Unapologetic, to answer your question about what made those divorces and remarriages cultish--not a single thing. Bad people, bad behavior and blatant hypocrisy exist everywhere. With Jhorning's comment I saw an opportunity to bring up (again) something about Stevens I found particularly heinous, and figured no one would notice it had nothing to do with the actual question I was responding to. I enjoy that you called me on it.

I am just trying to see if what I am really seeing is "wrong", or if I just don't understand the doctrines of TLW. I consider myself fairly educated, and have attended services in several different churches. I have never come across a church quite like this one. At first it didn't seem that different, altho I did have some red flags pop up pretty quickly. I agree with the observation of the implied deity of Marilyn, but not sure if that is a TLW teaching or just misguided members expressing their admiration and trust of her. (I will say however, the "deciding" red flag I had involved her and a situation with me and my spouse personally.) I also agree that no one should arrange marriages (and I don't really see that today) and that divorcing someone to marry another is wrong. This whole "spiritual family" and "mom and dad" mentality I see is also wrong, in my opinion. It takes the focus off God and places it on man. I have had many a go around with my spouse over the shepherding relationships also. But I will say this- at no time have I ever felt forced into doing something, or judged because I do not participate on the level as most. Everyone I have met have been sincere, loving, people who really try to seek a walk with God.

Divorces happen all thru Christianity. It is a sad thing, but quite common. The thing that makes the two above listed divorces so odd, is how the men, when needing to divorce their first wives, made villians out of them. Calling them instruments of satan and hinderances to the kingdom of god. These women were ousted and shunned as Jezebels. To me, that's an abuse of power. Reminds me of Henry the 8th.

Very well stated, paleface.

I know Larry Bobo but he probably doesn't remember me. I was from Seattle, travelling in an orange van with my large family.

Unapologetic Apologetic Wrote:
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what makes those divorces and remarriages cultish?

Those who spoke up about the inappropriateness of those marriages were immediately kicked out of the church which is an example of the cultish "control" the church leaders had over the congregation and anyone expressing a different opinion.

If you were in the congregation and witnessed those excommunications but felt in your heart those marriages were inappropriate, you dare not comment. I think that may be how mind control begins.

Unapologetic Apologetic Wrote:
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> Hello everyone. I have been reading this board for
> about a year, but this is the first time I have
> written. I have to ask jhorning and LampShmamp
> what makes those divorces and remarriages cultish?

Hello Unapologetic Apologetic. I'll answer your question with your own words:"...It takes the focus off God and places it on man..." There it is.

My wife and I were kicked out of the walk when we spoke up and said the situation surrounding gary's divorce and marriage to marilyn was wrong and the opposite of Christ's teaching and the focus of "we want our father back" after jrs died is absolutely WRONG. Doing what the authority in the church told you to do was/is more important or at least equal to the words of Christ our Lord. I told this to the elders in the church (grace chapel of Phoenix) one sunday morning after the service. When we returned home the phone rang. It was B. Maybee telling us we were no longer welcome in the services and to keep my "...opinion..." to myself.

I second jhorning’s last post. Whatever the leaders do or say is God. Whatever the subordinates do or say is nothing more than an opinion.

Unapologetic Apologetic: Start voicing some scriptural opposition or asking about neglected verses which do not support the hierarchy and then you’ll see the fangs and claws come out.

Also, if you’re well off financially there will be more tolerance and long suffering shown toward you until the hook has had time to totally dig in. It all starts out so lovey-dovey but in the end it’s a nightmare because after you’re discarded you then realize your independent, personal walk with God was stolen/destroyed.