[youtu.be]

Paleface thanks for providing the Vain Glory video link. My main criticism of the video is Tony's comment that JRS directed ministers to have sex with members of the congregation. I doubt it and I don't know of any evidence to support it. Also, I don't remember any services in which the congregation sang worship songs to JRS calling him LORD. But maybe that came later after I left. What I found really helpful were the comments by the psychologist, psychiatrist, Nichols, and Enroth. And of course my soulful side enjoyed the footage of John Lennon. I was a fan and a nondenominational Beatle maniac.

I agree. Pastors being ordered to have sex with women. That's a stretch. Some of the other stuff I recall. The prayers of calling the Apostle "our lord". I think that happened, just as worship of "the Lamp" goes on now. They justify it by saying "we are adoring the Christ in that person, that's all".

lily rose Wrote:
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> Paleface thanks for providing the Vain Glory video
> link. My main criticism of the video is Tony's
> comment that JRS directed ministers to have sex
> with members of the congregation. I doubt it and
> I don't know of any evidence to support it.

Marriages would be arranged, and later (under G & M) broken up, but that particular allegation by Cox is foreign to my experience. I was in the fellowship from '77--'97.

I recall JRS taking credit for prophesying and creating the Kennedy assassination. I also recall Walter Mondale being labeled as a nephilm and prayers of his destruction being made. All to naught, of course. What hubris !

paleface Wrote:
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> I recall JRS taking credit for prophesying and
> creating the Kennedy assassination. I also recall
> Walter Mondale being labeled as a nephilm and
> prayers of his destruction being made. All to
> naught, of course. What hubris !
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I heard many times about the JFK prophesy but was unaware of the Robert Kenney prophesy until I watched Vain Glory. Is this what they call six degrees of separation? On the night of Robert Kennedy's death at the Ambassador Hotel in LA my room mates and I were driving away from the hotel when a news bulletin came on the radio that Robert Kennedy had been shot. We were teenagers who had worked on the campaign to fulfill a requirement for our political science course and we attended the function at the Ambassador. We were stunned and devastated crying all the way back to our dorm. Then a few years later the man who claimed to have spoken the words of death ends up being my pastor.

He may have gotten lucky. So many other 'nephilim' that were judged survived and outlived him.

Lily, thanks so much for pointing me to this video. I agree with the others that the allegations of sexual promiscuity seem to be very surprising. Of course we all know about Rick Holbrook's sexual dalliances, but I was not aware of systemic sexual promiscuity from JRS that Tony alleges.

The other bit of information I found surprising was that JRS was kept unburied for 80 days after his death while people prayed for his resurrection. Can anyone back this up? There are a couple of newspaper articles pictured which may be able to shed more light on this, and it appears there was some contention over the burial location. There would have to be documentation of his death and burial dates. If confirmed, this could be a nice tidbit of information to add to the TLWF Wikipedia entry ;)

I found the un-synchronized sound to be very annoying, so I've re-synced the sound and an re-uploading to Youtube. The new version should be available shortly.

Thanks for the youtube link for “Vain Glory”. I’ve known about this movie for many years, but I had never seen it until now. Like others, I think many of Tony’s reflections were made to present himself in a more favorable light, without letting the truth get in the way. There are plenty of legitimate concerns without having to exaggerate for good press. I especially appreciated some of the cult experts comments and insights, many of which I had already read in their books.

A further link on youtube – [www.reflectionsfromthewall.net] accesses The Spiritual Counterfeits Project by Woodrow Nichols (jrs_the_walk.doc) which it says is a 35 page document, but is actually 179 pages. Like many of you, I’ve read anything I could get my hands on regarding TLWF to try and clear the air. Although I’ve read excerpts of this article in the past, I had never read the whole thing. There is a lot of history about John prior to the Walk that I think may be of interest to those, like myself, who were around in the sixties and seventies. I’ve talked with several outside of TLWF who were in southern California and knew John prior to the Walk, and their view of John seems to be confirmed by what Nichols has written.

My hope is that those of us that are a little wiser for our wounds and scars will come out of hiding and speak up when the wolves in sheep’s clothing begin to ravage the flock. I know it feels extremely awkward to place the senior pastor of some mainstream church in the place of God as we were trained to do in TLWF. That is because we were never supposed to do that – “Call no man leader , teacher, father, you have one and it’s the Christ”. “And don’t believe them when they say they are the Christ – many will come and if possible will deceive even the elect.” It is supposed to seem wrong – that’s the Holy Spirit leading, not anarchy as we were taught.

The overall Body needs that which every joints supplies - including all of us. Those who have deeply suffered and then been healed have an incredible gift to supply that is so lacking – pointing people to Him instead of those who want to take His place for personal gain. God will use for His glory anything we have gone through – even our mistakes. It’s good to be reminded of what we were after in the beginning – a “Walk” with God - and to encourage one another to continue to take steps. God is doing just fine and His love and faithfulness has never changed. I’ve often wondered if it is necessary for a son to walk through this step of suffering to see if it is really Him we are after, or are we too wanting to be God? Do we take offense when we discover that He alone is Lord – even though He is absolutely perfect? He uses us – we do not use Him - contrary to “Is God My Tool or My Boss”.

For anyone interested, here is a copy I created, with the voices properly synchronized to the video: [youtu.be]