FCSLC Wrote:
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> Romans 11:29 --- for the gifts and the calling of
> God are irrevocable.
>
> ---------------------------------

Saul was chosen to be king and the Lord repented he had made Saul King over Israel 1 Sam 15:35. Saul being chosen was later revoked.

The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable but being chosen appears to be revocable. Matt 22:14 For many are called but few are chosen.

All of us who believe were called by God. That's irrevocable. I don't know if G&M were chosen by God to be leaders. If God did chose them, like Saul it could be revocable.

The nightmare can continue when you leave. When I left I didn't look back for 27 years. In fact it wasn't until around 2007 or 2008 that I learned within a matter of minutes that John died of cancer, G&M took over, and G married M and much more. Talk about your head exploding. Even though I didn't look back for 27 years, I pushed down all the issues and ended up with a monkey on my back from my experiences in the church. I'm still a recovering CLW.

Years into my extensive experience in TLWF, it became clear to me that any ministry that exhibited kindness and was primarily concerned about the welfare of those they ministered to, was doomed. Because that very nature would conflict with the requirement to minister "the cross"...which, in TLWF, often meant breaking people's will to the point they were malleable to the agenda of leadership. If those down the chain ended up destitute, and entirely deficient in self-worth, oh well. It's the price to be paid for servicing the upward flow.

Here's an odd question: have any of you ever been held or detained on Living Word property (or at a communal home) against your will? Where you wanted to leave, but were not allowed to?

paleface Wrote:
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> Here's an odd question: have any of you ever been
> held or detained on Living Word property (or at a
> communal home) against your will? Where you
> wanted to leave, but were not allowed to?

____________________________________________________

A cult seldom controls its member by using physical coercion.

palmermarilyn Wrote:
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> I was a member of this cult in the late 70s. I
> belonged to the valley church, where at the time
> Glen Oswald was the pastor.

_____________________________________-

Welcome palmermarilyn! I know it was a long time ago but wasn't David Cokas valley pastor in the late 70s?

lily rose Wrote:
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> paleface Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here's an odd question: have any of you ever
> been
> > held or detained on Living Word property (or at
> a
> > communal home) against your will? Where you
> > wanted to leave, but were not allowed to?
>
> __________________________________________________
> __
>
> A cult seldom controls its member by using
> physical coercion.

The psychological manipulation from the pulpit was very powerful. I recall going to Shiloh one summer (early 90's) to help with a construction project. The week before going I had a job-related accident, ending up with a deep gash in my shin, which became infected. Since I didn't have health insurance (self-employed), I opted to just believe everything would be fine. The 'living word' message the night before I arrived at Shiloh had to do with God's intent to start 'amputating' members of the body for their disobedience. Needless to say, with this in mind, I wasn't motivated to reveal the condition with my leg...which had worsened. After I completed the work expected of me (a week or so later), I convinced someone not in authority to take me to a doctor nearby--which he did. The doctor agreed to treat me (at no charge), and stayed the infection.

changedagain wrote: [ Because that very nature would conflict with the requirement to minister "the cross"... ]

lily rose wrote: [ A cult seldom controls its member by using physical coercion. ]

---------------------------------

“The Cross” is more “cover terminology” to justify exploitation of sheep as well as providing a license for shepherds to act as tyrannical monsters.

Scholars/internet sites report Jesus “on the cross” for three hours. The false teaching of cults turn “The Cross” into a lifelong experience for underlings whereby the cult can collect earnings for a long, long time from each sheep. What a lucrative/coercive deception it is.

If we can improve ourselves by a cross experience, then Jesus died needlessly.

changedagain Wrote:
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> Years into my extensive experience in TLWF, it
> became clear to me that any ministry that
> exhibited kindness and was primarily concerned
> about the welfare of those they ministered to, was
> doomed. Because that very nature would conflict
> with the requirement to minister "the
> cross"...which, in TLWF, often meant breaking
> people's will to the point they were malleable to
> the agenda of leadership. If those down the chain
> ended up destitute, and entirely deficient in
> self-worth, oh well. It's the price to be paid for
> servicing the upward flow.

______________________________________________________

I'm still trying to sort out those tragic TLWF casualties, those who perhaps had fragile minds and the above post has helped.

Ministries I knew that eventually had a falling out with G & M included Bob Franz, Dan Statton, Mike Shermerhorn, John Miller and Bob McClane. I was close with Bob the last few months of his life, and found out about his death when Gary announced it in a Valley service. After the announcement, Bob was labeled a spiritual failure--something I reacted to as grossly inappropriate. Perhaps it was just another instance where I found God unacceptable.

changedagain Wrote:
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> Bob was labeled a spiritual
> failure--something I reacted to as grossly
> inappropriate. Perhaps it was just another
> instance where I found God unacceptable.
-------------------------------------

Outrageous coming from a guy with a 2x4 in his eye. Remember the boomerang. Dish it out and it comes right back. In the Book of Ester, Haman (who built a gallow to hang Mordecai) was hung on his own gallows. In Judges 1, King Adonibezek cut off the toes and thumbs of captured kings and when he was captured they cut off his toes and thumbs, and Adonibezek said "the Lord has requited me as I have done."