Time to get out of Dodge when the Lead Shepherd has a Bible in one hand and a gun in the other; it reminds me of Abiathar, the only priest to escape the treachery of King Saul of Israel who massacred the very Priests of Yahweh for his own political reasons. History seems to repeat itself, even in the church. (I Samuel 22:13-22)

All of Your recent posts moved me, to write again.

The entourage - those who travel with or surround and accompany - one who is considered to be a very important person, has been around all but forever - it goes way back in history. Those in the movie and music industry today , hire and pay for an entourage to accompany them in public , to boost and promote their popularity ( as being stars) . The entourage - has become a modern day lucrative business.
------------------------------
The idea of looking up to people who were considered to be very important was beginning to become ridiculous.

What contributed to further opening my eyes , was - after the wedding ceremony of a prominent apostolic ministry and his bride , as part of the planned events - after the wedding ceremony - it was announced to the whole church they were to go outside in the parking lot to toast the newly married bride and groom.

It was late dusk and then became night and the crowd was thick, plastic glasses with champagne was passed to the crowd while the people waited patiently for the appearance of the wedding couple and their party - who were in a room on the second floor which opened up above and over - where all the people stood waiting below. Every one had to crane their necks to look up to view the bride and groom, from where they stationed themselves to appear above the people, to be honored with a toast..

I'd already been thorough a lot, had seen a lot and ( the lot ) of what I was coming to realize was forming with in me - and I said to myself, with a plastic stemmed glass in hand , in having to look up, " WHAT A FARCE ", . I drank to the bride and the groom who I loved but it was that night that I decided to stop ( looking up ).

And a few years later the bride and groom, were among those who were targeted and told they had to divorce.
What a farce and what a crock it was and really turned out to be.

DEFINITION FARCE : a farce is a broad satire or comedy , though now it is used to describe something that is suppose to be serious but has turned ridiculous.

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd already been through a lot, had seen a lot
> and ( the lot ) of what I was coming to realize
> was forming with in me - and I said to myself,
> with a plastic stemmed glass in hand, in having
> to look up, " WHAT A FARCE ", . I drank to the
> bride and the groom who I loved but it was that
> night that I decided to stop ( looking up ).
> And a few years later the bride and groom, were
> among those who were targeted and told they had to
> divorce.
> What a farce and what a crock it was and really
> turned out to be.

Yes

Perusing some of my old emails...here's an excerpt from one in 2008, written by a former member of TLWF (20 plus yrs of service):

"In the immediate days after June 4th, you had about 2000
broken hearted people who just wanted to do anything to walk
with God and please Him, and were ready to come together and
take more responsibility to help carry out the vision John
started.
What ensued was a bloodbath of consolidation of power,
pushing out a lot of people due to longstanding grudges,
turmoil, revolving doors of in/out leaders, and daily
beatings from the pulpit demanding more and more submission
and the yielding to more and more domination by shepherds,
designated relationships and authority figures, and one fad
after another.
It's been Gary's job to preside over all of this
and provide the political spin to convince the people that
this is all part of God's master plan every step of the
way. It has failed though. Some areas appear more
solidified, but for every area they've gotten under
apparent control, there are a dozen failed areas and
wreckages. Their inability to grow or to develop an
educated third and fourth generation will catch up to them
pretty quickly here."

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > What ensued was a bloodbath of consolidation of
> power,
> pushing out a lot of people due to longstanding
> grudges,
> turmoil, revolving doors of in/out leaders, and
> daily
> beatings from the pulpit demanding more and more
> submission
> and the yielding to more and more domination by
> shepherds,
> designated relationships and authority figures,
> and one fad
> after another.
> It's been Gary's job to preside over all of
> this
> and provide the political spin to convince the
> people that
> this is all part of God's master plan every step
> of the
> way. It has failed though.

-------------------------
That was a powerful email. I was thinking about Invisible's description of John's vision in the mid 60's regarding a young man taking over the church and leading the followers astray. Maybe in the vision God was trying to convey to John that the foundational teaching John was laying down regarding authority, control over the private lives, and 100% submission to immature or untrained ministries (though loosely enforced under John) was setting the stage for someone younger and immature to come along after John was gone and exploit John's foundational teachings to abuse those whom God had set free through John's ministry.

Lily Rose wrote:
........ I was thinking about Invisible's description of John's vision in the mid 60's regarding a young man taking over the church and leading the followers astray. Maybe in thevision God was trying to convey to John that the foundational teaching John was laying down regarding authority, control over the private lives, and 100% submission to immature or untrained ministries (though loosely enforced under John) was setting the stage for someone younger and immature to come along after John was gone and exploit John's foundational teachings to abuse those whom God had set free through John's ministry.
-------

Perhaps John did not try to alter what he was shown - and even if he did, maybe it was not really up to John as to what the outcome would be or perhaps John was bound by his own faith for every man - believing that the gifts and the callings of God were irrevocable ( unchangeable, unalterable ) perhaps John lived by the answer he received to all he was shown , when he cried out to God for the church, " That all things would work together for good, for those who loved God and were called according to His purposes." Some day we will probably all know the answer to these things.

Invisible,

The way you see things helps connect the dots and fill in the blanks. Thanks!

> Invisible Wrote Regarding a Wedding:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd already been through a lot, had seen a lot
> > and ( the lot ) of what I was coming to
> realize
> > was forming with in me - and I said to myself,
> > with a plastic stemmed glass in hand, in having
> > to look up, " WHAT A FARCE ", . I drank to
> the
> > bride and the groom who I loved but it was that
> > night that I decided to stop ( looking up ).
> > And a few years later the bride and groom,
> were
> > among those who were targeted and told they had
> to
> > divorce.
> > What a farce and what a crock it was and really
> > turned out to be.
>
> changedagain Wrote: Yes

-------------------------------------------

I too believe in the doctrine of no big weddings. You know, another big crock was the farcical myths: speak it into existence, make it happen, appropriate it, loose it, pull it down. Yikes!

Romans 11:29 --- for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

---------------------------------

There have been references to the above verse in previous posts. My theological question is this: If someone is designated a leader within the cult, is that designation valid only within the cult or is it galactic?

Does our “non-membership” in the cult invalidate their claims of authority concerning us?

When G&M speak the “Word that Shakes an Age,” is it only for the cult or is it for all creation?

Does the “nightmare” continue or is it over from all perspectives when you drop out of TLWF?

I was a member of this cult in the late 70s. I belonged to the valley church, where at the time Glen Oswald was the pastor. I love Glen and holly and was so glad they got out a
s well years later.
I just met with some other x members and it was great to have people to discuss or time in the walk. Thank goodness for this forum.
I look forward to getting involved with these post
Glad to be away from the "walk".