A warning from Christ.
Luke 11:33-34 "The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness.Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.…"

Our focus should be on The Light of the world, not the next "thing" God is supposedly doing. Testimony of John the Baptist. "And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ." "You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, …". I can still hear those fateful words shouted out in the waiting stillness inside the Southgate Church,"Brother Stevens. if you're not the Christ who the hell are you!" Was that just the exuberance of the person saying it (I thought of it as one person saying something in the moment). Little did I know it would become a "revelation" we all were required to have.

I believe the "eyes" of tlwf did become bad. The crumbling of tlwf was to be expected. Many churches have claimed or are still claiming to be God's remnat on the earth. There are many "Shilohs", "school of prophets", and "apostles" around who have built their own peculiar "tower of babel". When the message from the pulpit is not focused on Jesus Christ [who He is and what He has done] and instead builds up the person speaking or what the leadership deems important,that is what happens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2014 02:05AM by jhorning.

I’m with you jhorning!! Excellent posts.

Hebrews 4:8 --- Joshua may have led them to a physical territorial victory, but was incapable of delivering the inner peace the scriptures have in mind. That job was designated for the One and Only and His Perfect Sacrifice planned before the foundation of the world.

Romans 14:17 --- The Kingdom of God is righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

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I appreciate all the posts on this forum. I realize we rehash some main points, but I believe it is good because many of us were “picked off” in isolated situations where we were outnumbered by the mob. As Invisible noted, truth stumbles in the street in those situations. It never gets boring for me when there is so much confirmation coming from such diversity. It’s actually very refreshing.

Most of what the people are presenting on these posts is straightforward basic scripture. We are not twisting and wrangling about in obscure secret revelations to prove our points. This is the downfall of the cults; if they could only present some actual above board sound theological arguments to support their trumped up positions then maybe there could be something meaningful to work with.

FCSLC Wrote:
>
>
>
> I appreciate all the posts on this forum. I
> realize we rehash some main points, but I believe
> it is good because many of us were “picked
> off” in isolated situations where we were
> outnumbered by the mob. As Invisible noted, truth
> stumbles in the street in those situations. It
> never gets boring for me when there is so much
> confirmation coming from such diversity. It’s
> actually very refreshing.
>
> Most of what the people are presenting on these
> posts is straightforward basic scripture. We are
> not twisting and wrangling about in obscure secret
> revelations to prove our points. This is the
> downfall of the cults; if they could only present
> some actual above board sound theological
> arguments to support their trumped up positions
> then maybe there could be something meaningful to
> work with.
------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. For me, I need repetition; keep it coming.

It is my opinion - I think the way we developed collectively as a church of many individuals - we all were related spiritually to one another and we were all learning from ( one man ) - based on the things ( that one man ) believed and taught us.

You might say we were disciples of John Stevens in this day - just like John the Baptist had disciples', or Jesus had disciples and Apollos and Paul had a body of believers who paid attention to what they were teaching - And because we were so focused on what John was teaching us and speaking to us from the pulpit - we also acquired much of his thinking - not apart from John laying a foundation for what he was teaching us - out of the Scriptures.

I think that we have to take responsibility collectively and individually ( ? ) for making a man out to be more to us than a man is to be.( some of us more so - others of us less so ) and we might also realize and confess that we were not like the Bereans who got into the Scriptures ourselves - to see if what John was teaching us was true. Did we know much of anything when we came into the church ? I think we also have to realize that we did not have the capacity with in ourselves to realize the importance of - needing to understand what we were believing or why we were believing what we believed - because as a whole - we as a church of many members - were also both spiritually ignorant and unlearned with in the Scriptures when we came into the church..

We while we were growing up - we had no idea what spiritual idolatry consisted of or really what idolatry was about - ( not that we today - do not have more to learn about idolatry ) even though we have come to learn what we have learned after many many years.

It is my opinion that we as a church - elevated John by not realizing that John Stevens needed both a Lord and a Savior, just as much as all of us did and all of us do.

And many of us made John out to be to ourselves ( as one who was all knowing ) -most likely because we knew so little - but it was always up to us - to find out for ourselves - if he really was speaking the truth or not.

I never heard John Stevens claim to be Jesus Christ - And when the person referenced as saying ( Brother Stevens, If you are not Jesus Christ then who the hell are you ? ) was not asking John if he was the Christ - I tend to think the person who said this was not asking a question but was making his own statement. The people put John on a pedestal just like they put their leaders today on a pedestal.

Maybe John did something right because we found our way to begin removing anything or any one from taking the place the Lord Jesus Christ is to have to us - and even if John fell far short of the glory of God in his labors - over us - we also might ourselves , be able to say - Let God be found true and every man a liar.

Look how long it took us and what we had to go through before we came to better understand and comprehend the errors of our own thinking.

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > As a point of reference - as we here , have
> discussed and expressed in many different ways -
> Today we know that the mistreatment of the members
> of the church for any reason - is not of the Lord.
> We now know and understand - that destroying the
> relationship of those who are married - is not
> of the Lord. And we know that cutting off ( for
> religious purposes ) the relationship that is to
> exist between parents and their children and
> children and their parents , whether the children
> be young or grown - is not of the Lord. And we
> know that controlling the lives and the will of
> the members of the church ( for religious purposes
> ) is not of the Lord. Can these truths, also
> be received by the members of TLWF ?
>
>_______________________________________________

I voice my agreement with you that the mistreatment of members that you describe above is not of Lord and would ask the same question, can these truths also be received by the TLWF?

I was initially drawn to the CLW because of the teaching regarding restoration of the early church practices which as many of us know missed the mark. I'm currently reading "Pagan Christianity?" (2002,2008) by Frank Viola & George Barna. Consider the following from page 248: The New Testament Church did not have clergy. Apostolic workers were not viewed as being part of a special clergy caste. Elders and shepherds were not special offices and they did not monopolize the ministry of the church meetings. Decision making fell upon the whole assembly; it was the church's responsibility to find the Lord's mind together and act accordingly. Apostolic workers would sometimes give input and direction but ultimately the whole church made local decisions under the lordship of Jesus Christ. Only Christ had the exclusive right to exercise authority over his people. No man had that right.

Lilly rose

I like the way "Pagan Christianity?" (2002, 2008) by Frank Viola & George Barna is leaning according to the quote you provided, especially referencing “special clergy caste.” I remember your post about the Greek word “exousia” being misapplied by many aberrant groups. I suspect there’s much information that can dovetail together and provide some clear cut delineation about what was really intended and what was really going on in the early church.

When I first read your post, I noticed both resistance and freedom in my own psyche/spirit. I interpret that to mean there are strongholds of false hierarchical teaching lurking in my memory banks that need to be replaced with the real scriptural truth and correct interpretation. Maybe I can get a cheap electronic copy of the book downloaded on my electronic device.

I am very interested in this topic because it makes no sense for Jesus to set the captives free so that they in turn would be ensnared again, only worse, in some diabolical deviant church.

Example: --- An individual waits in silent contemplation before God for hours and comes away with much energy in his/her spirit. The individual goes to church and is accused of rebellion (in many subtle ways) by the designated shepherd because the shepherd feels upstaged. (Ridiculous ----- but I've seen it happen)

I can remember hearing Gary Hargrave say over the pulpit many times that God had given man a free will and He would never cross that free will up. Then I got to wondering...."Gosh, why is it that God will not cross our free wills, but the LW pastors can?" Do they have more clout over us than God?

paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can remember hearing Gary Hargrave say over the
> pulpit many times that God had given man a free
> will and He would never cross that free will up.
> Then I got to wondering...."Gosh, why is it that
> God will not cross our free wills, but the LW
> pastors can?" Do they have more clout over us
> than God?

Good point.
BTW, I have never heard Gary apologize for anything he has said or done to people through the years. I think much of his methodology for training ministries, if witnessed by people outside the conditioning of TLWF, would be considered abuse...just some guy on a blatant power trip. It's interesting in the mid-90's, when the teachings of Stephen Covey were emphasized, that there was no follow-up to bring someone from his organization in to evaluate the culture of TLWF. I think it is obvious why that was never done.

p.s. this comment is not authorized

Donald Sterling or Gary Hargrave. Doesn't matter. Some people in this world just don't get it.