FCSLC, do you know in what year Bowman passed? I remember the Maxwells; they were very health conscious.

From the Shiloh site, regarding what to expect from the SOP conference that begins Saturday:

"This is our expectation for the School of Prophets Conference – that it will be a gathering of believers who want nothing more than to simply walk with God and from that humble place, a word of authority will be spoken that shakes this age."

lily rose: Herman & Ann Maxwell, as well as their son and daughter in law, Loren & Judy Maxwell were good friends of mine. Always good vibrations from them ----- nothing messed up.

Bowman & Ann Littleton and their children Hope & Jacob were good friends too. My wife used to baby sit for them. Bowman is listed as the State of Utah ----- “Minister of Christ” who performed our wedding. That was in 1975.

My wife says, “Chuck Longest told me Bowman passed away in China.” We do not know the year, but please post if anybody knows.

I remember helping Bowman find some windshield wiper parts for the old Cadillac he was driving. He was great in the scriptures, but not exactly mechanically inclined. It was fun being needed in that situation.

Lily Rose, and all,and Thank you Changed Again for the update,

In answer to John having passed on his mantle of authority to Gary and Marilyn shortly before he died. It is my understanding that no one witnessed this take place - so that it might be confirmed - but it was said by some that when they questioned Gary & Marilyn about this - they were told that a tape recording was made of the event, which G&M, said, they were going to be playing for the church - but that this tape recording made of John privately giving to Gary (and Marilyn ) his mantle of authority - was never played for the ministry or for the church.

As most might remember - John over the years, always first set aside ( set apart ) a man - for service as a ministry - with the agreement of the existing ministries and with the agreement of the congregation. As a set aside ministry , a man then served for a season and learned how to serve in the ministry, with the help of the existing ministries. And when the man was serving well in the ministry - then John set the man into the ministry with the agreement and the witness of both the ministries and the congregation. This was a pattern that John followed during the 17 years that I ( as a member of the church) observed in how he set aside and set men into serving as ministries, for the church.

And I myself did not see John deviate from this pattern over the 17 years I was observing him - as the overseeing apostolic ministry for the church.

However some time in 1981 - John having been diagnosed with cancer late in 1980, invited all of the ministries and members of all the churches who were related to the Church Of The Living Word to attend special services - John held at the San Diego Church - these services which were given the title ( The Unfolding ).

At one of the services during the (Unfolding ) - John called Gary up on the platform to minister to him. And it was at this time that John laid hands on Gary and prophesied over Gary. It was at this time that John set Gary ( apart ) from among all the brothers, giving Gary (a charge.)
( definition Charge - to impose a duty, responsibility on ) John took one more step after this service in the ( Unfolding ) and had Gary speak to the church.

However when John prophesied over Gary - John prophesied over Gary - the responsibility Gary was to have for the church - John at this time did not give Gary the responsibility John carried for the Church - as the spiritual overseer for the church. But John spoke of the responsibility that Gary was to have for the church - and he likened that responsibility to the responsibility that Joshua had, saying that Gary was to lead God's people on into the kingdom. This is the only time that John spoke of the responsibility that Gary was to have for the church to the church. ( And this that was spoken over Gary at the unfolding in San Diego in the hearing of all the many members ) is what held the church together - after John died in June of 1983.)

After the " Unfolding " John began taking steps ( himself ) to try to bring some other certain brothers ( ministries ) into the ministry with himself - to bring about a working relationship between these certain brothers and Gary and those brothers who were working for John in the ministry but John was unable to do this - because a major disagreement arose which created a division that has never been corrected - and John so was unable to delegate the responsibility he wanted to give to these other ministries.

John intended to delegate responsibility to other ministries - so that Gary would have the help he needed to be able to carry the responsibility he was to have for the church. Gary was far too young to have the mantle of John's ( full responsibility ) for the Church by himself at that time..

And the division that arose ( between brethren ) was based on the premise of men thinking of the ministry as being a high archy of authority. . And because of the spiritual immaturity that existed in ( all ) the brethren - which Gary became entangled in and got caught up in - in mid 1982 - this resulted in Gary not having the help Gary needed - which John was trying to bring about - for the church, before John died.

You may say well if John knew that Gary was the young man that he saw was going to be leading the church astray and away from God why did John prophecy over Gary and give him a responsibility to lead God's people on into the kingdom?

My best answer would be - that the gifts and the callings of God are irrevocable ( unalterable, unchangeable ) Gary was functioning as an apostolic ministry long before John knew he might soon die - and when the time came - John did not disqualify Gary or any man who was serving in the ministry. See Romans 11:28 -32 which might be applied to all of us - as well - as it was applied to those - the Apostle Paul was speaking of - in Romans 11:28-32.

My best answer would be - that John could do no more than it was given to John to be able to do - and John let what would be ( with faith ) for all of us - run it's course, which has brought us to this day.

As a point of reference - as we here , have discussed and expressed in many different ways - Today we know that the mistreatment of the members of the church for any reason - is not of the Lord. We now know and understand - that destroying the relationship of those who are married - is not of the Lord. And we know that cutting off ( for religious purposes ) the relationship that is to exist between parents and their children and children and their parents , whether the children be young or grown - is not of the Lord. And we know that controlling the lives and the will of the members of the church ( for religious purposes ) is not of the Lord. Can these truths, also be received by the members of TLWF ?

We all were taught - but did not understand the meaning of what we were being taught - that - Authority in the church - is not a position or a place given to rule over your brother - Authority = (equals responsibility ) given to us - to be able to accomplish by faith - the responsibility we are given, from One Who Is - above all rule and authority )

What importance, do the prophecies previously made concerning each of us have ? The Apostle Paul spoke to Timothy.

Timothy 1:18-19 This command I entrust to you, Timothy my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may fight the good fight. Keeping faith and good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered ship wreck in regard to their faith.

This is my best answer I would give , for all of these things I have written about.

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it was said by some that when they questioned
> Gary & Marilyn about this - they were told that a
> tape recording was made of the event, which G&M,
> said, they were going to be playing for the
> church - but that this tape recording made of John
> privately giving to Gary (and Marilyn ) his mantle
> of authority - was never played for the ministry
> or for the church.
> -------------------------------
So since Marilyn held the purse strings and because of the heavy conditioning and the training not to speak up, not to criticize, not to question, even the heavy weight ministries were unable to demand proof to hear the tape for themselves?

Lily Rose,
The paragraph I wrote and you re- posted - is what I heard some say - I think I read what I wrote about there suppose to have been a tape recording of the event on one of two forums and of the controversy that surrounded it.

I try to always post what I have seen or know of directly my self - maybe there is some one writing on this forum - who can confirm this referenced paragraph I wrote - other wise please consider that paragraph 2nd hand information - my sincere apology. But the rest I wrote I saw or knew first hand.

You also responded saying in closing your thought in posting , writing ......even the heavy weight ministries were unable to demand proof to hear the tape for themselves?

I remember that not too long after John died - At the Valley Church - it was being said by Gary from the pulpit that there was channels of demonic assault coming against Marilyn and Marilyn became an issue and the focus and support for her was being rallied by Gary - so what ever was going on - behind the scenes - I don't know - what the controversy was about - but from what was said to the church - Marilyn was at the center of the controversy and support for her became an intense focus and this focus lasted for quite awhile - so much so , that the people were not able to just morn John's passing.

As to their being heavy weight ministries - I believe the power of agreement between men - can tie a man's hands behind his back - so he can not defend himself or any one else or any thing else. When men believe a lie together - and act together on what they believe - there can be terrible consequences and outcomes for the man whose hands have been tied ( by doctrines and words of agreement )

When a man - believes he has to submit to the will of an other man - in a church high archy , when he clearly knows that what is being done to him is wrong, he has little recourse. And if a man doesn't know that he is being railroaded - he just submits - because he doesn't know any thing different - he keeps silent and internalizes ( fighting with in himself with himself ) over being submissive, trying to do what he believes is right.

I have also both seen and have experienced this struggle myself .

In my opinion - The power of agreement can be a dangerous thing ( not always ) but I don't think it always is motivated by evil intensions - it can simply be that men just don't realize what they are doing, when they are doing wrong and are doing wrong together - using the power of agreement.

lily rose Wrote:
> So since Marilyn held the purse strings and
> because of the heavy conditioning and the
> training not to speak up, not to criticize, not to
> question, even the heavy weight ministries were
> unable to demand proof to hear the tape for
> themselves?

In reality, there have only been a couple 'heavy weight' ministries. The others, to one extent or another, have functioned mostly as figureheads. I've experienced, and witnessed on numerous occasions, the coercive tactics of top leadership, and the resultant withering of formerly strong-natured people under this authoritarianism. It's been both disheartening and extremely sobering.
On the few occasions where I would speak up, it would usually be the form of a joke--such as when I attempted to kid Marilyn about her designation as an "apostolic fathering ministry". That didn't go over well.

Invisible: What you describe in your last post could be labeled “Mob Mentality.”

Quote lily rose on June 27, 2014 01:57am: “I'm not so sure John always had a pipeline to the will of God and I wonder if the term mantle of authority wasn't misguided thinking that was misused by John and G&M. If John never had a mantle of authority there would have been no mantle to pass on.

Quote larry bobo on June 11, 2014 03:31am: “It’s okay to read Jesus’ words for yourself and let the Holy Spirit bring alive what God is accomplishing in your personal life. Jesus told us to not settle for second hand information. Only He can give a divine nature – it’s not for sale via some hireling. It’s the hirelings that say you must go through them to get to God. Jesus called them thieves and robbers.” & “If any man has anything special from God, they are certainly not the source of it anyway – God is.”

-------------------------

“Mantle of Authority,” “Keys to the Kingdom,” “Word of Authority,” “Power of the Priesthood” and on it goes. Are they not all “cloaking terminology” used especially by the cults to validate a power monger’s attempt to become a “substitute” for God?

“Power of the Priesthood” is very common in the Salt Lake City area. I remember a person saying to me, “I have the ‘Power of the Priesthood,’ therefore I command you--------.”

This happened right on the workroom floor and since I’m not Mormon I said, “The words ‘Power of the Priesthood’ and ‘command’ are not in my vocabulary.” That basically ended the conversation.

invisible wrote in part, "But John spoke of the responsibility that Gary was to have for the church - and he likened that responsibility to the responsibility that Joshua had, saying that Gary was to lead God's people on into the kingdom."

And right there is the problem. "...lead God's people on into the kingdom." Where in the scriptures did Christ, Peter, or Paul or anyone tell another person they were to lead God's people into the kingdom? The Walk had/has an inflated opinion of itself.

Invisible, Changedagain, FCSLC, JHorning,

Thank you for the clarifications and insights. Yes, much to ponder. "Examine everything!" (ITh 5:21).